Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Bishops for Life? : On Civil Rights and the Silencing of Father Frank Pavone
The Remnant Online ^ | Oct. 5, 2011 | Christopher A. Ferrara

Posted on 10/17/2011 6:34:46 PM PDT by Dajjal

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-45 next last
To: Dajjal
Perhaps the SP statement was what it purported to be (imagine that!), i.e., a reminder that what had been promulgated had not been changed, despite many assertions to the contrary by those with vested interests.
21 posted on 10/17/2011 8:07:50 PM PDT by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: aposiopetic
Honestly, I think we are on the same side here. I don't agree with the actions of these bishops.

The key reason I posted the essay is this statement:

Bishop Zurek’s power play against Father Pavone is a prime example of why the pro-life movement has yet to win a major victory in America: the Bishops are not behind it

I cannot say whether I'm prepared to agree completely with it or not. But I think it is food for thought and discussion.

Are the Catholic bishops the reason we still have legalized aborticide in America?

22 posted on 10/17/2011 8:28:57 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Admittedly, had the article been bland, I might not have entered into the discussion.

There is good reason to pray for the bishops and for this Republic.

23 posted on 10/17/2011 8:33:58 PM PDT by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: aposiopetic
I should have noted Ferrara is quick to add that "there are noble exceptions."

There is good reason to pray for the bishops and for this Republic.

Indeed!

24 posted on 10/17/2011 8:55:49 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

It would not do Fr. Pavone harm to take some time off from PFL. In the specter of Fathers Euteneuer and Corapi, the cult of personality can be seen as a seductive mistress. Fr. Pavone has done tremendous pro-life work but he is a priest, not a CEO. As for me, my charitable donations that once went to HLI and PFL are now bound for EWTN. They’re the only ones left that I trust. I pray for and wish Fr. Pavone well, but hi should not be the only face of PFL.


25 posted on 10/17/2011 9:05:21 PM PDT by informavoracious
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aposiopetic
And are you promoting the view that Bishop Zurek’s limitation on the activities of Fr. Pavone is of the same order, or even of the same kind, as whatever actions were taken by Pope Liberius with respect to St. Athanasius?

What a ridiculously bizarre comparison. I would be fascinated to hear how you would resolve the relative differences of spiritual value between the defense of the unborn versus Arianism.

You know, Jesuitical ju-jitsu really does have to be practiced with a sense of appropriateness. Historically, mere sophmoric enthusiasm over employing raw technique only brings further problems down the line. You should read up on the catastrophes of Antipope Hillary to more thoroughly understand the utter failure of such a course.

26 posted on 10/17/2011 9:28:40 PM PDT by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Talisker
I would be fascinated to hear how you would resolve the relative differences of spiritual value between the defense of the unborn versus Arianism.

No lo contendere.

27 posted on 10/17/2011 9:35:27 PM PDT by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

I told my friends when Fr. Corapi was suspended that the next one to watch would be Fr. Pavone. Clearly, the word has gone out among the bishops and the effective, traditional priests are being picked off, one by one. I smell sulfur.


28 posted on 10/18/2011 2:30:45 AM PDT by redhead (Don't START with me...you know how I get.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: redhead; Dajjal
when Fr. Corapi was suspended that the next one to watch would be Fr. Pavone

Me too. Thak you, Dajjal, for posting. The entire Vatican II was pushed down on the Church on the single argument of "obedience". It is time to remember that obedience is good but Catholic faith is better.

29 posted on 10/18/2011 5:29:06 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: RitaOK
"There is a jot here that has been leaked out, and a tittle there, but no real accounting. "

That's true and the repeated references people make to audits bothers me. I always get nervous when people start throwing that, "books have been audited" stuff around. Some sorts of audits don't do anything like what they're implying they do. An awful lot of people who read that phrase, however, think that an audit in and of itself means that all the expenditures recorded in the books are just fine and on the up and up.

Now, conversely, you can have an audit that will detail how much metal some gnat may have removed from the weight of a dime while it was in you custody. In addition, it can alert you to the fact that a series of "Office Supplies" entries have been going to firm named "Honey Dew Does" and let you figure out whether or not that's an appropriate office supply vendor or if someone is sharpening their pencil a bit too often at your expense. An audit that gives you a clean bill of health for one type of financial reports doesn't do anything except certify that you have appropriate, sufficient, and accurate information to support those reports and therefore everyone can get GAAP happy.

There are different types of audits and the big accounting firms are more than happy to lend their name to your clean bill of health if you'll let them limit what they review. I hope, very sincerely hope, that they guy writing this article is right, that the Bishop is the guy with the problem, that prayer gets the Bishop to see the error of his ways, and it all turns out to be a very happy and instructive tale. Really, that's what I'd love to see. On the other hand, how about a couple of articles and interviews with the accounting crew and financial folks this priest has trusted?

30 posted on 10/18/2011 6:15:00 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
"... And today it is only the Roman Catholic religion that has the power to halt America’s slide down the declivity to barbarism. It is no coincidence that the pro-life movement is overwhelmingly Catholic. ..."

Man, it's good to see the truth in print.

Seems to me non-Catholic Christians got exactly what they prayed for, a nation that reflects their beliefs. Oh, they were thinking of their beliefs as simplified for Sunday School and not taken to their logical conclusion, but the actual, real endpoint, which is moral relativism is what they got because God answers prayer.

I wonder when the fact that moral relativism is the logical endpoint of Protestant thought is going to start sinking in on people and when non-Catholic theologians are going to deal with that reality? Fundamentalists and Baptists get you to moral relativism more slowly than the expressway of Calvinism, but they all take you to the same destination. Doesn't matter, really, because it's still up to Catholics to turn this nation to Christ and defy the barbarism that is now taking hold.

Whenever a country heads toward barbaric paganism, fascists take control to steer the ship of state. Anyone who thinks saying we're on the way to barbarism is an exaggeration needs to just look at the actions and goals of those steering the ship.

31 posted on 10/18/2011 7:07:00 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

I can’t judge in this because I don’t know ALL the facts. Please pray for our bishops as well as all our priests.


32 posted on 10/18/2011 7:25:46 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

Wow, what a very well written and true article...thank God, the truth is told!


33 posted on 10/18/2011 9:37:11 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

The thing is, Father Pavone said that it was an outside auditor the PFL employed to do the books, thankfully. All those millions will attract attention, and then you have now this red ink with a spin off organization and IRS complication, and the group who analyzes charities saying the ratio of cost/income was a little bit higher than average for administrative expenses, or whatever. That kind of money and the IRS designation was bound to attract the attention of any Bishop eventually, right? I mean Bishops are responsible for some modicum of knowledge of public activities and funds undertaken and collected by their diocesan priests, right? It is a mystery at this early point, on both sides, in what is ego and what is duty. I hope it turns out that both principle players are simply zealous for righteousness and that all will be transparent.


34 posted on 10/18/2011 9:50:37 AM PDT by RitaOK (TEXAS. It's EXHIBIT A for Rick, who needs to pound the fiction flackers back into the Stone Age.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Related:

Bishop Cupich: Questions about involvement in the 40 Days for Life Program
http://fratres.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/full-text-bishop-cupich-clarification-of-diocesan-position/comment-page-1/#comment-8092

What I feel he is saying is that Marxism has been with the American Bishops for 20 years and it trumps the division that is caused by the staunch support of the dignity of human life called for from Rome.

35 posted on 10/18/2011 10:05:05 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jacknhoo
Bishop Cupich: Questions about involvement in the 40 Days for Life Program
http://fratres.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/full-text-bishop-cupich-clarification-of-diocesan-position/comment-page-1/#comment-8092

What I feel he is saying is that Marxism has been with the American Bishops for 20 years and it trumps the division that is caused by the staunch support of the dignity of human life called for from Rome.

Why give the parishoners pro-life literature from Priests For Life, Human Life International, STOPP Planned Parenthood, or the American Life League, when we can give them nice "seamless garment" literature from the USCCB? Besides, it's just our policy.

36 posted on 10/18/2011 6:09:46 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

“Are the Catholic bishops the reason we still have legalized aborticide in America?”

You just popped the biggest can of worms ever. What if the answer leans towards the positive...where exactly is the moral road for practicing Catholics.


37 posted on 10/18/2011 6:38:54 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG ...paging the Vatican....can you recall the problem bishops please)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: All
In case you missed it, I urge Freepers to watch this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2788214/posts
Father Pavone Update ( You-Tube )
You-Tube ^ | Oct, 5 2011 | Life Dynamics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aFlVhD5Npc

Prolife activist Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics reports on his recent visit with Fr. Frank Pavone during an interview on "LifeTalk," posted on YouTube (18:22 mins.).

A quote from minutes 13:20 - 13:50 of the video:
Mark Crutcher : "This bishop is conducting psychological warfare against Father Frank. And I think what he is trying to do, it's pretty clear to me, he's trying to keep this pressure up on Fr. Frank, and force Fr. Frank to become disobedient. That's what he's trying to do. And then he'll be able to stand up and say, 'You see, I told you this was a bad priest. He's disobedient. Now you see what I'm talking about.' He's trying to force him into that position."

38 posted on 10/18/2011 6:39:22 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RitaOK

@Rita in regards to your comment > Recently my curiosity got the best of me and I went on to follow the Freefrfrank.com website a friend of mine sent me. I found an insightful commentary or should I say some intertesting statements regarding canonical law on the bishop/priest relationship and vice versa.

I’d like to share some with you as they are quite insightful:

The Vatican’s Vision of a Bishop: Father, Brother and Friend for the Common Good

In exercising his ministry, the Bishop relates to his priests not merely as a ruler towards his subjects, but rather as a father and a friend... The Bishop should encourage a spirit of initiative among his priests, avoiding anything that might lead them to understand obedience in a passive and irresponsible manner. He should ensure that each gives his best and does so generously, placing his own capacities in the service of God and of the Church, with the mature freedom of the sons of God.

Apostolorum Successores, 76: The Bishop: Father, Brother and Friend of Diocesan Priests

Introduction
One of the most misunderstood realities of the Church, both historically and presently, is the Bishop’s relation to the priests and faithful he serves.

The Congregation for Bishops in the Vatican has provided a document to clarify precisely this relationship:

The Directory for the Pastoral Ministry of Bishops Apostolorum Successores.

To properly view the current situation between Bishop Patrick Zurek and Father Frank Pavone, this document is crucial to understand the role of the Bishop as the Vatican and the Church herself understand it and NOT as any particular individual - no matter how well known, scholarly, or powerful - desires that it be understood.

General Principles: Truth, Justice, Use Talents of Your Priests Wisely for the Common Good

The Vatican says that the Bishop must be guided by certain fundamental principles:

The Principle of Truth The Bishop must have truth at the heart of his pastoral action. «Pastoral activity is authentic when it is anchored in truth» and thus inauthentic when it is not. (57) A Bishop is not allowed to lie to his priests, lie about his priests, or ruin the good reputation of his priests. Restitution is required if this is done. Further, if a priest provides his bishop with information he requested, and then the bishop cannot claim that he does not have it.

The Principle of Communion
The Bishop must promote unity with legitimate diversity: The Bishop should «work constantly for the common good of the diocese, mindful that this is subordinated to the good of the universal Church» (58) Priests for Life is a worldwide catalyst for the healing of women and families affected by abortion throughout the world. Countless numbers of children are saved by their efforts everyday. A ministry which greatly benefits the most sensitive pastoral missions of the universal church today - hurting women and mothers,wounded fathers, and unborn children - exemplifies this greater good par excellance.

The Principle of Cooperation
The Bishop must involve all Christians in the one mission of the Church. «In fact all

Christians, individually and collectively, have the right and the duty to cooperate in the mission which Christ entrusted to his Church, each according to his own particular vocation and gifts received from the Holy Spirit.» (59) Father Frank Pavone has been individually gifted with the ability to effectuate great good for salvation of souls and common good in a particular arena: the sanctity of life and the healing of women and men from abortion. Denying the Church and society this gift, by constraining him arbitrarily, does injustice to the Universal Church and especially the women and children who will suffer from this. One only has to ask Jane Roe/Norma McCorvey - whose conversion from the most vivid symbol of abortion in America to now outspoken Pro Life leader was due in a large part to Fr. Frank - to verify this.

To this I say: Veritas Omnia Vincit in other words Truth conquers all


39 posted on 10/20/2011 10:03:36 AM PDT by Mabelita (“Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

The shepherds are fat (and gay) and the sheep are lean.


40 posted on 10/20/2011 10:15:09 AM PDT by Rum Tum Tugger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-45 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson