Posted on 10/19/2011 2:40:04 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
God´s Grace to You and Yours....
Shame on me, and after metmom was SO NICE! [”your pot-stirring posting history has been duly noted.”]
Wake up! Look at yourselves!
Swell thread, GN. Thanks a lot for posting.
s, ¨I thought you might find this interesting¨ ping....
Hey blasater!
Tarah here!
Okay question on something you wrote...
You said:
So, what do we see here? A) The nations will stream to Zion, to Jerusalem, to LEARN THE LAW. B)The Gentiles shall come from all over the earth to Israel.
If I am reading you correctly....If people in the Messianic Era Jew and Gentile alike are going to be learning the *Law* of GOD, then should we assume as well people will still be condemned by the law? if that is the case then Then how will Jews and Gentiles repent of those sins in the Messianic Era?
Also who are the Jews that are going to be in charge of teaching the Laws of GOD to the Gentile Nations? Are these Current Jewish Leaders?
Are you saying that all the Nations of the earth will be under the Law in the Messianic Era?
Lastly does GOD determine or Man determine who is a Jew and who is a Gentile in the Messianic Era?
Thanks!
Shalom!
Tarah!
The Antichrist is the next one to come on scene..
Daniel 9:24-27
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood:
War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
If you wanted an more indepth answer...maybe you should have asked a more in depth question.
not to mention an acknowledgment that God did indeed command Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac.
That G-d told Abraham to go offer Isaac as a burnt offering is obvious. Why point out the obvious? People who say...Abraham and Isaac is a picture of G-d and Jesus are missing the point of the test. It shows nothing of the sort.
A) G-d asked Abraham...Please take your son...a special request.
B) Told him to go to Mt Moriah..the site of the future temple and sacrifices.
C) Abraham told Isaac that G-d would provide the sacrifice.
D) And he said, "Do not stretch forth your hand to the lad, nor do the slightest thing to him, for now I know that you are a God fearing man, and you did not withhold your son, your only one, from Me."
E) Abraham took the ram and offered it as a burnt sacrifice.
Now lets look at what has transpired. Abraham had 10 tests. The last being the Akeidah, the binding of Isaac. Why this test? Because Isaac was the child of G-ds promise of being a nation. And now G-d was testing him. Would G-d take away His promise to Abraham? Abraham quickly followed G-ds command. It is one thing your own life willingly but another to offer up anothers..particularly Isaac, the child from whom the nation of Israel would arise. That was a difficult test.
He takes him to the future temple site on Moriah. Binds him and then G-d stops him. The fact that he took it that far, in the eyes of G-d, it is as if he had actually done it. But G-d does not allow human sacrifice and the ram is given to Abraham. And Abraham proceeds with the burnt offering.
And G-d tells him...now I know you are a G-d fearing man. The whole point of the test and the command.
Now notice how it compares to Jesus.
G-d wasnt testing Jesus. Jesus was supposed to be god in the flesh. Jesus had no choice...no free will. He said in the garden, not my will but your will be done. (which is odd since he is supposed to be god in the flesh, why did he have to submit to himself?)
Abraham and Isaac both had free will. They chose to obey G-d.
Isaac was bound at the altar and wood on Mt Moriah. Abraham was going to slit his throat. That is the proper procedure for a sacrifice. Slit the animals throat for near instant death by rapid blood loss. The fat and ofal burned.
Jesus was not killed on Mt Moriah but at golgatha. He did not have his throat slit and rapid bllod loss. He died slowly by suffocation on the cross. His blood was not sprinkled on the altar. His fat and ofal not burned. His blood remained inside his body.
Other than the supposed father son relationship, the two stories are completely different. So what if G-d commanded Abraham to do this test. He stopped the test before human sacrifice. In at least four other locations in the bible, G-d says he HATES human sacrifice, it is an abomination to him, it didnt enter his mind to command it and He hates the shedding of innocent blood.
And the whole "sacrifice" of Jesus would have been a set up. Jesus would have been a never before seen god-man hybrid human. If I or you or anyone were 100% god and 100% man, we would not have sinned either. It is impossible for G-d to sin, therefore a god-man can not sin. The situation was rigged. So what good would be the death of a perfect human being be if it all was a set up? Jesus supposedly fulfilled the law on our behalf. Nowhere in all of Tanach does it say that a messiah will fulfill the law on our behalf, take the sins of the world, thus negating the law. No where. That is a fabrication of the NT. So the whole comparison of the Akeidah to Jesus is also baseless and fabricated.
The comaprison is not a kiddush Hashem but chillul Hashem.
we assume as well people will still be condemned by the law?Then how will Jews and Gentiles repent of those sins
There is differing opinions on that. The third temple will be built, sacrifices are returning. Some say there will only be thanksgiving sacrifices...some say all sacrifices. Probably all sacrifices is the answer. Things will be as now, i suspect. You repent by prayer, repentance, fasting, charity and for unintentional sins, animal sacrifice.
Here is an interesting discussion for you on animal sacrifice: Animal Sacrifice
Also who are the Jews that are going to be in charge of teaching the Laws of GOD to the Gentile Nations? Are these Current Jewish Leaders?
No, the Priesthood is returning. They will teach...I suppose they will appoint other teachers and the Sanhedrin is returning. Not current Israeli leaders!
Are you saying that all the Nations of the earth will be under the Law in the Messianic Era?
Yes, I believe so, not me but the bible.
Well untimately it is G-d. But messiah will have the ability to identify who is of the lost tribes. How? I dont know. Could be technical means...could be mystical.
Hi Tarah...please note that in the Hebrew it does not say "the Anointed One" will be cut-off. No where in all the Tanach (OT). The word "the" is not there. And there are no capital letters in Hebrew either. It should read...an anointed one will be cut-off.
Being cut-off (do a word study) is NEVER something that happens to righteous people...only wicked people.
And there will be no anti-christ. Anyone who shows up as a human being and says he is god will be considered a loon.
That is not correct. Chillul Hashem is any desecration of G-ds name....Including attributing to G-d evil deeds or wrongdoing. To say that G-d would engage in human sacrifice, such as in Jesus, is a chillul Hashem.
And, you've answered your own objection unawares in pointing out that self sacrifice for the glory of God, a kiddush Hashem, is actually what occurred with Jesus Christ.
I pointed out no such thing. Martyrdom for the glory of G-d does not include a premeditated human sacrifice as if he were an Asham blood sacrfice. It is not permitted for a human being. That is why G-d hates it. And says so plainly. Each man is responsible for his own sin Ezek 18. There is no need for a god-man hybrid savior.
For someone to say that Jesus willingness to kill himself as a sacrifice for all mankind (or anyone) is permitted by G-d, goes directly against scripture. It is a chillul Hashem, you are saying that G-d behaves like the pagans who do engage in human sacrifice. G-d copies the way of the pagans he despises? G-d hates it when the Baal worshippers kill their innocent sons and daughters...including infants But copies these people? No...no way.
Bookmark
Thank you!
Just one point, not that it “proves” anything I guess, one way or the other but Jesus’ blood was spilled on the Cross, when the centurion pierced His side. “Blood and water” flowed out of where He was pierced.
The fact that Christian doctrine, for the most part, is in contradiction of the prophecies of YHVH in the Tanakh, highlights the heresy of Christian doctrine. There is nothing wrong with the 1st century writings when read and studied in their proper context. That context being from the Hebraic mindset of the writers who wrote them. Writers who were all Hebrew & the only thing that they rejected was the oral law of the Levitical priesthood that had added laws to the Tanakh via the Talmud.
Mt 5:18 is a direct quote from Torah: Deut 4:2 "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you"
Christianity alike has added to & taken away. The most oft cited Scripture they quote for the abolishing of Torah is Colossians 2:14 “having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross”
What Christian interpretation does is fail to see that the writer Paul was specifically referring to Romans 7 and the Torah law of divorce. Jer 3:8 “Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce;”
Paul said in the opening of Rm 7:1 “Surely you know, brothers - for I am speaking to those who understand Torah - that the Torah has authority over a person only so long as he lives? 2 For example, a married woman is bound by Torah to her husband while he is alive; but if the husband dies, she is released from the part of the Torah that deals with husbands. 3 Therefore, while the husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress if she marries another man; but if the husband dies, she is free from that part of the Torah"
Pagan gentiles knew nothing of Torah and could have cared less about it. Paul was only speaking the the “dispersion”. John 7:35 “Then the Jews said among themselves, “Where does He intend to go that we shall not find Him? Does He intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks?”
The Torah law requiring 2 witnesses has never ceased. The 1st century writings stand as one witness for YHVH & HIS prophesy that Messiah did come and start bringing the diaspora back into covenant in order to make the house of Judah jealous in order that she cast off the Talmudic oral instructions.
The 1st century writings also confirm the prophesy that, for the most part, the house of Judah would not get jealous & would still teach that certain works must be done prior to becoming a member of the covenant, i.eg. circumcision. Therefore the veil still remains & will remain until He returns the final time. This is a fact according to YHVH & who are we to tell anyone of the house of Judah they have to convert to the false doctrine of Christianity or they will burn in hell?
Do I fault the house of Judah for clinging to the Talmud? Absolutely not! I praise them for it! If they hadn't, Christianity would have rewritten every word of Scripture from Gen-Rev in order to justify their heresy. Oh, wait, they did do that!
Yah’shua, adam(Spirit & Word), is the Melchisedek(Heavenly) High Priest. Christians teach that this priesthood exists on earth because they took and and then added words to the 1st century writings in order to justify their doctrine. Their mistake? They think the Heavenly priesthood is a reflection of that which is on earth thereby denying the truth that the priesthood on earth is to reflect that which is in Heaven.
Gen 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said: “ Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth;”
Thus the reason Abraham did as commanded and went to offer Isaac. This is a prophetic picture of the Messiah & the passing over from the Levitical priesthood to the Melchisedek Priesthood. Prophesy that YHVH would offer an adam(Spirit & Word) of his choosing. How do we know this? Well, if one is careful in reading this part of Scripture.
Gen 22:4 On the third day, Avraham raised his eyes and saw the place in the distance. 5 Avraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey. I and the boy will go there, worship and return to you<.u>.”
Two went up, two came back, just as Abraham said. Might I suggest that it was YHVH who spoke these words through Abraham given the early blessing of Mechisidek, the King of “Peace”. From study we know that “Shalem” (translated Salem in English) is not actually the name of a place but rather, it is a state of place. The state of “Peace”. The state of “Shalom”.
Thus I am also going to suggest, given the fact that the Hebrew alphabet did not & still does not contain vowels, the letters reysh-lamed-mem have been utterly misinterpreted by Christianity, thereby utterly missing the message of YHVH given here.
This weekends Torah portion, B’rsheet (In the beginning) 1:1-6:8 gives quite a picture in light that Hebrew names are more than just a name given to a person, the meaning of those names is most significant. so let's take a look at the names of the generations of Adam.
Adam = Mankind
Seth = Appointed to
Enos = Frail, mortality
Cainan = a fixed dwelling
Mahalaleel = God who is praised
Jared - comes down, descend
Enoch = to instruct, train up
Methuselah = a man sent forth
Lamech = to be beaten, tortured
Noah = bring rest, quiet peace
“Mankind is appointed to frail mortality in a fixed dwelling place. God who is praised comes down to instruct as a man sent forth to be beaten and tortured which will bring rest & quiet peace.”
Yah'shua is now the eternal High Priest with authority to intercede for sin. His position as High Priest is forever.
Psalm 110: 1 "ADONAI says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." 2 ADONAI will send your powerful scepter out from Tziyon, so that you will rule over your enemies around you. 3 On the day your forces mobilize, your people willingly offer themselves in holy splendors from the womb of the dawn; the dew of your youth is yours. 4 ADONAI has sworn it, and he will never retract -"You are a cohen forever, to be compared with Malki-Tzedek."
Yah'shua had to die for the sins of the bride. Strangers(goyim) have always been welcome into the covenant as long as they accept the terms of the covenant which is Torah and which does not include the oral laws of the Talmud or any Christians doctrine.
Exodus 12:49 "One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you”
YHVH has always known who HIS children are & what the role of Messiah is, see
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2795193/posts?page=136#136
The Red Heifer Sacrifice for sin of man has been fulfilled. If it hadn't, then the scapegoat sacrifice would have continued to be accepted after Messiah died, the red banner would have turned white as it always had in the past.
the letters reysh sheen-lamed-mem have been utterly misinterpreted by Christianity, thereby utterly missing the message of YHVH
http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/62221/jewish/Universal-Morality.htm
...”The Seven Noahide Laws” are a sacred inheritance of all the children of Noah, one that every person on the face of the earth can use as the basis of his or her spiritual, moral and pragmatic life. If enough of us will begin to incorporate these laws into our lives, we will see a different world very soon. Sooner than we can imagine.
THE 7 LAWS
1
Acknowledge that there is only one G-d who is Infinite and Supreme above all things. Do not replace that Supreme Being with finite idols, be it yourself, or other beings. This command includes such acts as prayer, study and meditation.
2
Respect the Creator. As frustrated and angry as you may be, do not vent it by cursing your Maker.
3
Respect human life. Every human being is an entire world. To save a life is to save that entire world. To destroy a life is to destroy an entire world. To help others live is a corollary of this principle.
4
Respect the institution of marriage. Marriage is a most Divine act. The marriage of a man and a woman is a reflection of the oneness of G-d and His creation. Disloyalty in marriage is an assault on that oneness.
5
Respect the rights and property of others. Be honest in all your business dealings. By relying on G-d rather than on our own conniving, we express our trust in Him as the Provider of Life.
6
Respect G-d’s creatures. At first, Man was forbidden to consume meat. After the Great Flood, he was permitted - but with a warning: Do not cause unnecessary suffering to any creature.
7
Maintain justice. Justice is G-d’s business, but we are given the charge to lay down necessary laws and enforce them whenever we can. When we right the wrongs of society, we are acting as partners in the act of sustaining the creation...
Okay, I see where you are coming from. The historical discussion of chillul Hashem is what is described in that article. I didnt get that from your statement. More directly it is the Jews not doing what is expected of them in terms of observance...thus reflecting poorly on G-d. Yes, there is a lot of discussions by the sages in that regard. It is a very grave sin. However...chillul Hashem broadly speaking, is anything, that is a desecration of G-ds name...not just by Jews.
But for the sake of argument. Since you are (apparently) attributing kiddush Hashem to Jesus for his martyrdom, the corollary can also exist. From the Jewish point of view, Jesus would be guilty of a chilul Hashem for giving non-Jews the impression that G-d is okay with human sacrifice, violates His own Torah and that makes G-d look bad in the eyes of the gentiles.
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