Posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:56 PM PDT by rzman21
I challenge Evangelicals to put their interpretation of the Bible and their theology up against the acid test of what the Early Church Fathers taught.
Perhaps, Evangelicalism is closer to the truth than Mormonism, but it still has a long way to go.
Purpose
This Web page is dedicated to the defense of Catholic doctrines within Patristic thought. The Catholic rule of faith consists of three coordinate and complementary authorities: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the teaching Church. The Church Fathers used both Scripture and Tradition to explain and defend the Catholic faith. Corunum's mission is to present the outline of Catholic doctrines as they appear in the writings of the Church Fathers.
What you will Find Inside
Corunum Apologetic Web site does not contain a library of the writings of the Church Fathers. There are a host of sites on the internet which offer the Ante-Nicene Fathers(ANF) edited by Cleveland Coxe and the Nicene Post-Nicene Fathers(NPNF) edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace.(cf. ANF/NPNF ). Inside you will find testimony from the Church Fathers on various Catholic doctrines listed in chronological order.
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2(A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
Against schism:
"Why are there strifes, and tumults, and divisions, and schisms, and wars among you? Have we not [all] one God and one Christ? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? And have we not one calling in Christ? Why do we divide and tear to pieces the members of Christ, and raise up strife against our own body, and have reached such a height of madness as to forget that "we are members one of another?" Remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, "Woe to that man [by whom offences come]! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones. Your schism has subverted [the faith of] many, has discouraged many, has given rise to doubt in many, and has caused grief to us all. And still your sedition continueth." Clement of Rome[regn c.A.D. 91-101],To the Corinthians,46(A.D. 91),in ANF,I:17-18
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
In the Protestant case, it’s invent your own religion.
That’s been about a 2000 year problem. The true meaning isn’t hidden it’s right there in the inspired written Word. Anyone who is truely seeking God will find it. The problem comes from people who aren’t sincere or who are taught by the insincere. The enemy isn’t the Protestants or the Catholics or the Orthodox. It’s people who aren’t interested in finding and submitting to God, using the Church for sinful purposes.
"Brrrrrrkkkkk.. the gates of hell shall not prevail."
"Brrrrrkkkkk..Sola Scriptura..each man his own pope"
"Brrrrkkkkk..James 2:17"
"Brrrrkkkkk..And upon this rock"
"Brrrkkkkk..One billion strong...2000 years...brrrrrkkkkk".
I do not trust some preacher, priest or pope to tell me what The Word says. I read it for myself. I prefer to go to the written word, and when I have questions of interpretation, I go back to the Greek.
That is why I hold scripture above all and measure the pronouncements of lay or ordained against scripture. For there have been many who were called but have fallen away.
Scriptorium Primoris
FOTFLOL!!!!!
examples please. ok, you asked, here you go:
baptists and lutherans both follow sola scriptura. baptists say Scripture teaches infant baptism is not biblical, the Lutherans say the Scriptures teach infant baptism.
who is correct?
want one more?
baptists say the Lords Supper is a memorial service and the bread remains bread. Lutherans believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
who is correct?
i could go on, let’s see how you do with these two examples of “sola scriptura”.
Well, then I suppose you could show me from scripture the teaching of the bodily assumption of Mary.
well, i suppose you can show me from Scripture the teaching of Mary not bodily assumed into heaven.
Please, are you sticking you tongue out while saying that? It is not possible to have any respect for that kind of comment.
no
"I beg of you, my dear brother, to live among these books [scripture], to meditate upon them, to know nothing else, to seek nothing else." - Jerome (Letter 53:10)
"There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source. For just as a man, if he wishes to be skilled in the wisdom of this world, will find himself unable to get at it in any other way than by mastering the dogmas of philosophers, so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scripture declare, at these let us look; and whatsoever things they teach, these let us learn; and as the Father wills our belief to be, let us believe; and as He wills the Son to be glorified, let us glorify Him; and as He wills the Holy Spirit to be bestowed, let us receive Him. Not according to our own will, nor according to our own mind, nor yet as using violently those things which are given by God, but even as He has chosen to teach them by the Holy Scriptures, so let us discern them." - Hippolytus, Against Noetus, ch 9
"For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?" - Ambrose (On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102)"We use Scripture to answer heresy and preceive that it is power and truth." - Basil the Great
“Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.” - Gregory of Nyssa (d.ca, 395) “On the Holy Trinity”, NPNF, p. 327
“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture." - Basil the Great (ca.329–379) On the Holy Spirit, 7.16
“Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God.” - Augustine (354–430) De unitate ecclesiae, 10
"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life,--to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 2:9)
That’s not what Augustine said.
"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life,--to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 2:9)
Powerful post, CB.
That’s a rather telling comment! So Catholics make up stuff and if it doesn’t say it’s not true in scripture it becomes new doctrine? Wow! That’s what I thought they did.
Maybe we could start on something a little simpler for you. Jesus disagrees with you on veneration of Mary.
Luke 11:27-28 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, (Greek Menounge: nay surely, nay rather) blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Next.....
Looks like they taught Sola Scriptura to me.
:-) The Lord leads!
There is something so inherently dangerous about the mentality that if something is not specifically addressed in Scripture you can make it up as you go because after all, Scripture didn’t say it DIDN’T happen.
No one can make up stuff and demand or presume that it is true simply because Scripture doesn’t specifically deny it.
For that matter, it doesn’t even really matter to most Catholics if Scripture does teach that something they claim isn’t true. They’ll just invoke *tradition* and *church fathers* over it and that’s the end of it, no matter how much the clear teaching of Scripture contradicts it.
Believe it or not, that’s a typical response I get when I ask that question.
The basis of all cults. Add to, take from, deny, deceive and demand obedience. It’s worked for what 2000 years now and counting. And 2 billion people march lock-step in blind obedience.
He CERTAINLY DOES!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.