Posted on 10/29/2011 3:31:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Catholics who believe a purifying fire will purge away their sins are deluded victims of a fatal fabrication. The invention of a place for purification of sins called Purgatory is one of the most seductive attractions of the Roman Catholic religion. Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church described this deceptive hoax brilliantly. He said: "Purgatory is what makes the whole system work. Take out Purgatory and it's a hard sell to be a Catholic. Purgatory is the safety net, when you die, you don't go to hell. You go [to Purgatory] and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven if you've been a good Catholic. In the Catholic system you can never know you're going to heaven. You just keep trying and trying...in a long journey toward perfection. Well, it's pretty discouraging. People in that system are guilt-ridden, fear-ridden and have no knowledge of whether or not they're going to get into the Kingdom. If there's no Purgatory, there's no safety net to catch me and give me some opportunity to get into heaven. It's a second chance, it's another chance after death" (from "The Pope and the Papacy").
The Origin of Purgatory
There was no mention of Purgatory during the first two centuries of the church. However, when Roman Emperor Theodosius (379-395) decreed that Christianity was to be the official religion of the empire, thousands of pagans flooded into the Church and brought their pagan beliefs and traditions with them. One of those ancient pagan beliefs was a place of purification where souls went to make satisfaction for their sins.
The concept became much more widespread around 600 A.D. due to the fanaticism of Pope Gregory the Great. He developed the doctrine through visions and revelations of a Purgatorial fire. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (CE), Pope Gregory said Catholics "will expiate their faults by purgatorial flames," and "the pain [is] more intolerable than any one can suffer in this life." Centuries later, at the Council of Florence (1431), it was pronounced an infallible dogma. It was later reaffirmed by the Council of Trent (1564). The dogma is based largely on Catholic tradition from extra- biblical writings and oral history. "So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity" (CE). It seems incomprehensible that Rome would admit to using a pagan tradition for the defense of one of its most esteemed "Christian" doctrines.
The Deception of Purgatory
Purgatory comes from the Latin word “purgare,” which means to make clean or to purify. The Catholic Encyclopedia defines purgatory as "a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions." They must be purified of these "venial" sins before they can be allowed into heaven. Here we see Catholicism perpetuating the seductive lie of Satan by declaring "you will not surely die" when you commit venial sins (Gen. 3:4). The Council of Trent dares to declare that "God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction and will punish sin...The sinner, failing to do penance in this life, may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God." (Session 15, Can. XI). Those Catholic Bishops had the audacity to declare that the suffering and death of God's perfect man and man's perfect substitute was not sufficient to satisfy divine justice for sin.
The Motivation for Purgatory
Over the centuries billions of dollars have been paid to Roman Catholic priests to obtain relief from imaginary sufferings in Purgatory's fire. The Catholic clergy has always taught that the period of suffering in Purgatory can be shortened by purchasing indulgences and novenas, buying Mass cards and providing gifts of money. When a Catholic dies, money is extracted from mourning loved ones to shorten the deceased's punishment in Purgatory. When my dear old dad passed away as a devout Catholic of 79 years, I was amazed at the hundreds of Mass cards purchased for him by well-meaning friends. We have heard of other Catholics who have willed their entire estates to their religion so that perpetual masses could be offered for them after they die. It is no wonder that the Catholic religion has become the richest institution in the world. The buying and selling of God's grace has been a very lucrative business for the Vatican.
Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!
Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!
Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!
Biblical Support for Purgatory
There is absolutely none! In fact, neither the word nor the concept of sin-purifying fire is found in Scripture. The Vatican was confronted with this in the 16th century when the Reformers protested its practice of buying and selling of God's grace through indulgences. Backed into a corner, the Council of Trent added the apocryphal books to its canon of Scripture. Rome now declares there is scriptural support for purgatory in the apocryphal book of Second Maccabees. The council ignored the fact that the Jewish scribes never recognized the apocryphal books as inspired or part of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were never included because of their many historical, theological and geographical errors. Since God is not the author of error, He obviously did not inspire the writers of the Apocrypha. This is why the Apocrypha was never included in the original canon of 66 books. ..........."
The Biblical Rebuke of Purgatory
God's Word leaves absolutely no possibility for sin to be purged away by anything other than the blood of Jesus Christ. The beloved apostle John penned these words with irrefutable clarity. He wrote, "The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin" and "all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:7, 9). John did not say "some" sins or "most" sins, but all sin! This soundly rebukes the need for a sin-purging fire. God's Word also declares, "All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" (Heb. 9:22). When Jesus "made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3). Those who desire to have their sins purged need to trust a person, not a place. The blood of Christ is the only cleansing agent for sin! Those who come to the cross of Christ must come with empty hands of faith, bringing nothing but their sins.
Every blood-bought believer is instantly present with their Redeemer at the moment of death. To be "absent from the body" is to be "at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8). This good news was affirmed by the Lord Jesus with the promise He gave to the repentant thief at Calvary. He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). This habitual sinner did not need a fire to purge his sins.
Catholics who believe in Purgatory need to be asked: "Who is in charge of releasing souls from the purging fire?" It cannot be God because of His promise to believers. "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more" (Heb. 10:17). After conversion, God no longer counts sins against His children (2 Cor. 5:19).
Purgatory is a travesty on the justice of God and a disgraceful fabrication that robs Christ Jesus of His glory and honor. He alone satisfied divine justice, once and for all, by the perfect and finished sacrifice of Himself. The fatal deception of Purgatory blinds Catholics from the glorious Gospel of grace. It is one of Satan's many lies which keep his captives from knowing and trusting the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone that will present us "faultless before the presence of his glory" (Jude 24).
So in short, belief or non-belief in Purgatory has zero effect on electedness and ergo in salvation.Logic is an unfair tool to use Larry. For shame!
Lies told by bigots are still lies.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
Context context context nares... this is a scripture that is addressing MINISTRIES.. not sin
Your other scriptures are also out of context and have not one thing to do with man purging his sin in Purgatory ..Catholics are clueless about reading scripture.. proof texting fire does not doctrine make
Nothing to do with Purgatory...
So tell me where the Catholic Church states that Purgatory is either a time or a place. The Catechism refers to it as a "state".
Lies told by bigots are still lies.
Here is Rashi's commentary on Deuteronomy 4:24:
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
(24) A JEALOUS GOD. jealous to take vengeance,
Shabbat Shalom
...................
glowing in his anger to exact punishment
from those who worship idols;
cf Rashi on (Num:25:11):(re: PHINEAS)
Six words, but in them is a great part of the difference between Catholics and those who oppose them:
To obey God is perfect freedom.
Six words, but in them is a great part of the difference between Catholics and those who oppose them:
To obey God is perfect freedom.
It makes no difference. As Jesus said, “TODAY”. A place, a state makes no difference as I see it, it’s just not biblical, not in the least.
Now that being said, I fully believe my RC friends and relations are brothers and sisters in Christ. They fully believe and trust that Christ died for their sins and that’s an end to it, we’ll have a grand argument in the afterlife won’t we...oh wait, we’ll know for sure then, but some of us will be red faced..hope it’s not me, but I’ll be glad to be there along with you.
Nope as that would be going through man. The only way too salvation is solely through Christ and Christ alone. Even Peter state this in Acts Ch 4
8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Leaders and elders of our nation, 9are we being questioned because we’ve done a good deed for a crippled man? Do you want to know how he was healed? 10Let me clearly state to you and to all the people of Israel that he was healed in the name and power of Jesus Christ from Nazareth, the man you crucified, but whom God raised from the dead. 11For Jesus is the one referred to in the Scriptures, where it says, ‘The stone that you builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.’£ 12There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of heaven for people to call on to save them.”
It would seem to me that would include any named church as well. No church not one will take you too heaven. His Name, His Blood, His Grace by the will of GOD given us, = Our Salvation and our eternal healing by the same. Christ paid our sins in full. Only in him are we made perfect. No deed we can do, no acts we can endure will remove even a spec or make us more pure. We are forgiven sinners righteous before GOD only through the cleansing Blood Of The lamb or we are going to hell either/or.
The thought so nice he said it twice!
Some Catholic reading on the subject.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory_qa.html
Since only those saved by the cross of Christ even GET to purgatory, this argument is complete and utter nonsense.
Belief in purgatory would even seem to grieve The concept of Purgatory denies the
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
substitutionary death and resurrection
of Yah'shua to cover all sins for mankind.
the Ru'ach HaKodesh. ( Eph 4:30)
The concept of Purgatory denies the substitutionary death and resurrection of Yah'shua to cover all sins for mankind.Nope.
Our Protestant brothers and sisters seem to have a lot of difficulties with abstract concepts. It seems like in many of these discussions Catholics are discussion the beauty of sunsets and rainbows with the color blind.
Let's take the bone that seems to be sticking in their craw on this thread, "Purgatory". The concept of purgation as a means of internal cleansing the was well established within the Mediterranean cultures. "Purgatory" quite simple means a place where "purgation" or purification takes place. Theological or spiritual cleansing may be foreign to some, but it was a common theme in both the Old and New Testaments.
In the ancient Roman and Mediterranean cultures purgation, or a purification, was a very common practice in food preparation (snails, titmice, etc.) in which the contents of the digestive tract was cleansed prior to cooking and eating for obvious reasons. Similarly, purgation was a common treatment for many illnesses. Anyone who has had a child with their stomach pumped knows it is still a valid medical practice. Purgation was a long held practice for funerary purgation throughout the ancient world and even today modern embalming uses similar practices. The purgation of criminals was even commonly attempted with sulfur and onions.
So, to a Catholic, like first or second century Christian, the concept of purgatory is not alien or foreign and is actually well grounded and understood.
Yah'shua speaking :shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachMat 12:31 "Therefore I say to you,The concept of purgatory seems to blasphemes the Holy Spirit.
any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people,
but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
See 78
Really? Like you have some odd, special authority? Sorry, I will just gently pass on your odd views of God and faith.
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