Posted on 11/27/2011 6:41:43 AM PST by NYer
We sing the Greek/Latin ordinary and the Mysterium Fidei in Latin normally, so that didn't change (except for the normal changeover to Mass XVII for Sundays in Advent).
I'm anxious to hear the Roman Canon for the first time in the new translation. (Father used EP III this morning.)
Like a pew-mate said at Vigil yesterday: “It took me 20 years learning to say everything without reading it. I’m getting up in age, now, so I’ll probably die before I learn it all over again”.
>>I think you’re going to find (still) some minor different gestures and responses in different parishes. I wouldn’t be too concerned. <<
It’s the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.
There shouldn’t be ANY differences.
That’s the Spirit of Vatican II that got us all in trouble.
“I recall when I first started here some articles I posted critical of the Novus Ordo ICEL mistranslations. I was hounded! (Remember the fake deacon, what was his name?) A heretic because I suggested that the Tridentine Mass was a better choice. Good to see that the world has changed, at least imho, for the better.”
This is a little exaggerated. The Catholic crowd here is pretty conservative, as these things go. There have been few folks here who have ever defended the ordinary form of the Mass completely, at least as regarding the translation to English from Latin. "Reform of the reform" has ever been the watchword of the critical mass of Catholic posters here. I don't recall whether sinkspur defended every last word of the old ICEL English translation, but that represents just about one poster.
The problem is that within what you just wrote, you move the goalpost, from criticism of the old ICEL translation (which has been a nearly-unanimous consensus opinion here in the Catholic Caucus at Free Republic) to stating that the Tridentine, or extraordinary form, is to be preferred to the ordinary form (or, as you call is, the Novus Ordo).
There are lots of folks, indeed, nearly all here, who had problems with the old translation. But smaller numbers prefer the extraordinary form to the ordinary form.
And now that the translation of the ordinary form has been changed, and, in my own opinion, significantly improved, you will continue to find that many folks prefer the more-faithful translation of the ordinary form, but might still not prefer the extraordinary form.
Thus, one thing (better translation of the ordinary form) doesn't equal the other (extraordinary form).
My own memory suggests that it had often been the proponents of the extraordinary form (then referred to mostly as the Tridentine Mass) who were rather obnoxious in telling those of us who didn't prefer the extraordinary form to the ordinary form that the ordinary form was 1) bad; 2) even intrinsically evil; 3) could only be thrown out, baby and bathwater together, in favor of the Tridentine Mass, and even 4) some folks who went as far to say that the ordinary form was invalid.
I think that current events rather vindicate the views of the great number of “conservative” Catholics here (as opposed to those who might style themselves “traditionalists”), who preferred a more-faithful translation of the ordinary form rather getting rid of it altogether.
sitetest
It is also good to bear in mind that for the Latin Rite of the Church Latin is - and always has been - the normative language for the liturgy. In point of fact, if not practice, any Priest anywhere in the world could have celebrated the Ordinary form of the Mass in Latin. In point of fact, they needed permission to celebrate in the vernacular.
It took 40+ years, but Deo Gratias, finally, an accurate (official) translation in English.
It is also good to bear in mind that for the Latin Rite of the Church Latin is - and always has been - the normative language for the liturgy. In point of fact, if not practice, any Priest anywhere in the world could have celebrated the Ordinary form of the Mass in Latin. In point of fact, they needed permission to celebrate in the vernacular.
It took 40+ years, but Deo Gratias, finally, an accurate (official) translation in English.
It is also good to bear in mind that for the Latin Rite of the Church Latin is - and always has been - the normative language for the liturgy. In point of fact, if not practice, any Priest anywhere in the world could have celebrated the Ordinary form of the Mass in Latin. In point of fact, they needed permission to celebrate in the vernacular.
It took 40+ years, but Deo Gratias, finally, an accurate (official) translation in English.
I recalled that myself when this translation came out. I guess that version was a temporary until the “new Mass” could be totally put together. But, I have been thinking, didn’t we say these things for some time at one time?
Rereading that old post is fascinating. The debate about what a Universal Indult might look like, the problems, the angst. And now the reality. First the Moto proprio, the lifting of the ex communications, the new translation of the new Mass. All trending towards a more Orthodox future. Truly an amazing decade in the history of the Church.
BTW your unfailing courtesy at a time when many of our faith used vitriol instead was then, and now, a breath of fresh air. If I have not said “thank you” it was an oversight on my part. Forgive the discourtesy as I now, (and I hope again) publicly thank you for that.
From various Masses I’ve been to in different areas of the Country, there’s always been differences. I just don’t see any real significance to the variations.
Reading that 2002 thread makes me very grateful for the pontificate of BXVI.
Absopositively! Viva il Papa!
Of course, not all are pleased. See http://www.salon.com/2005/04/21/vatican_6/
My first experience with the 3rd Roman Missal went very well. No complaints at my parish.
I have admit NYER I stumble on some of words Hey I think I stick with new missiel for few weeks until “I get confortable”
It take time and practice practice practice
Thanks, and the same to you! Being immensely pregnant gets one into the spirit of Advent ;-).
“>>Here’s a thought; let’s go back to the pre-Vatican II liturgy to restore some actual joy and power to the Mass.<<
All in time, my FRiend”
Absolutely! I think that’s His Holiness’ plan. It’ll likely take longer than his reign (though one can always hope). It took ~45 years for us to get this far, it’ll take awhile to get to there. I would love to have the Traditional Latin Mass a block and a half from my house (that’s how far our parish is). This is a step. The first, but not the last.
Went to 6 pm Mass. That is normally the “teen” Mass where most of the positions, except the readers, are from the teens, including the music. The mas was heavily attended, and there were no problems. Of course people my age found the “new” language very familiar because a lot of it is a translation directly from the old Latin. e slipped a coule of time, but Father took us back through it. He just beamed as we SHOUTED “And with your spirit!”
I don’t know why people are complaining. (I heard a guy on the radio complaining this afternoon.)
**Are the gestures supposed to be there or not?**
Absolutely! We pray with our bodies as well as with our words, mind, etc.
Have you ever done something wrong and said, “Mea culpa?” Even non-Catholics understand that.
Have you ever done something wrong or heard swearing or saw someone commit a sin, and you struck your breast, in a way, saying, “Lord, I’m sorry I heard, saw, witnessed that.”
I have. My kids knew very well when I struck my breast (no words) that I was saying that it was my fault.
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