Posted on 12/10/2011 2:11:27 PM PST by NYer
Lutheranism is dead, or at least soon will be and it wants to take the Catholic Church with it.
Herbert W. Chilstrom is former presiding bishop of Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Chilstrom has written an open letter to the Bishops of Minnesota asking them to accept gay 'marriage' becuase gays are like blacks or something.
May I share a word with all of you who now lead the Roman Catholic community of faith in Minnesota?
First, I would go to the wall to defend your right to work for the adoption of the so-called marriage protection amendment. Having said that, I must tell you that I believe you are making a significant mistake.
Over my 35 years as an active and retired bishop I have come to know hundreds of gay and lesbian persons. I have yet to meet even one who is opposed to the marriage of one man and one woman. After all, they are the daughters and sons of such unions.
What they cannot understand is why church leaders would oppose their fundamental desire and right to be in partnership with someone they love and respect who happens to be of the same gender and sexual orientation. They don't understand why they should not enjoy all the rights and privileges their straight counterparts take for granted.
More than a half century ago Father Francis Gilligan spoke out for equality for African American citizens of Minnesota. Though many argued on the basis of the Bible that these neighbors were inferior to others, Gilligan fought tirelessly for justice for these brothers and sisters.
In our generation homosexual persons are subject to the same discrimination. Their detractors often use the Bible and tradition as weapons of choice.
What strikes me about this letter is how utterly juvenile it is in its thinking and how insulting it is to the Catholic position.
Chilstrom challenges the Bishops to "Let me put out a challenge to each of you brothers. Invite 15 gay and lesbian persons from your respective areas, one at a time, to spend two hours with you."
In Chilstrom's mind, the problem is that we don't know and therefore don't like gay people. If we just got to know them, then all these problems would go away. How utterly juvenile. We know them, we love them, that is why we can never support this behavior becuase it destroys them body and soul.
It is no wonder that Lutheranism is dying a milquetoast death.
Indeed. Or like saying the PCUSA is a good example of Presbyterianism. PCA and OPC are examples of true Presbyterianism.
An old college professor, a scholar and historian of the period, proud of his Lutheran religion in its origins, and well versed in the Lutheran-Catholic debate in those times, put things succinctly.
“Today Lutheranism has become little more than Luther-ism.”
He said it clings to the name, but its faith has died.
Check out everything you can about the National Council of Churches. They are NOT Christian churches. They are the left wing of the Democrat party.
• African Methodist Episcopal Church
• The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
• Alliance of Baptists
• American Baptist Churches in the USA
• Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
• Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
• Church of the Brethren
• The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
• The Episcopal Church
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
• Friends United Meeting
• Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America
• International Council of Community Churches
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America
• Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
• Mar Thoma Church
• Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province
• National Baptist Convention of America
• National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
• National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
• Orthodox Church in America
• Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
• Polish National Catholic Church of America
• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
• Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
• Reformed Church in America
• Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
• The Swedenborgian Church
• Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
• Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
• United Church of Christ
• The United Methodist Church •
“And the gates of hell shall not prevail against her.”
Indeed. We need to asking the liberals why they discriminate against incest and polygamy.
I would like to invite you to come worship with me and attend Bible classes at our LCMS church and then allege that the faith has died.
the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
Ditto....
If two or three or four or more people or living creatures *love* each other why not?
Exactly.
Homosexuality is not like race. Race is an immutable condition.
Are there conservative Methodist denominations? How about the Free Methodist Church? I don’t know very much about them but a former pastor of mine attended a Free Methodist college back in the 1960s and 1970s and said they were very conservative at that time.
[ “And the gates of hell shall not prevail against her.” ]
WHO?.. the ekklisia “the called out ones”.. Jn ch 10..
Jesus called them out of the sheep pen(s)...
History shows some just would not come out tho.. pity.. (Rev.)
Some just luv that old sheep pen.. maybe its the smell of spiritual urine.. (or something)..
You know Buddism, christian religion, Judaism, Islam.. same thing..
Even the Moose Hall is a kind of sheep pen.. or the Masons even Scientology..
For how long Bishop? The Gay married couples will be designing their own offspring.
ELCA deserves the attack. And I am Lutheran (not ELCA). We have been trying for decades to get them (their leadership) to drop their unorthodox views and come back to orthodoxy. Letters, meetings, discussions. It has gone nowhere.
The gentle touch has not worked for twenty years. They have become more adamant and stubborn and hard-hearted. They are losing congregations to other denominations.
Christianity is not democracy. We don’t get to twist words around and ignore others in order to create theology that never was there and is opposed to what God’s Word actually says.
Ohhh....... we can go one better than that.
About half a century ago, we invited (I use the term loosely) a whole bunch of homosexual men to join the priesthood and spend their entire lives with us. They sodomized the catechism classes, ran amok among the altar boys and cost the Church billions of dollars in settlements.
Sorry.......what was it you were saying, again?
And no nominally "Lutheran" denomination more richly deserves such an end.
If the old Swedes who made up the church I attended as a youngster could have seen what its merger into the ELCA - and subsequent apostasy - have wrought, they'd have gone into mufti as Norwegians and started attending the Missouri Synod services at the north end of town.
Mr. niteowl77
UMC has great people, but led astray by left wing leaders. I left 30 years ago. I don’t know why but left wingers rise to the top of these churches.
How does your local congegration determine who will be the pastor?
By popular vote.
Not from us Catholics...
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