Posted on 01/05/2012 5:10:45 AM PST by DaveMSmith
An exploration of Isaiah 53, John 1; 16:26, and 17:5, 24 from a Swedenborgian perspective. The key to it all is to see that Jesus is not a separate person; He IS "the arm of Jehovah." -- 90 minute study of Scripture
Prior to the live stream last night, I opened the Word randomly and read from Zechariah 13:
The Shepherd Struck, the Sheep Scattered 7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is close to me!" declares the LORD Almighty. "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones. 8 In the whole land," declares the LORD, "two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.' "
Swedenborg teaches the meaning of this chapter is:
The contents of chapter 13 are these: That the Word will be for the New Church, and will be opened to them (Zech. 13:1). That falsities of doctrine and worship will be altogether destroyed (Zech. 13:2-3). That the old prophetic or doctrinal teaching is to cease, and that there will no longer be falsities of doctrine (Zech. 13:4-5). That the Lord will be slain by those who are in the Old church, from their intention to disperse them that believe in Him (Zech. 13:6-7). That they who are of the vastated church will perish, and that those who are of the New Church are to be purified and taught by the Lord (Zech. 13:8-9). These are the contents of chapter 13 in the spiritual sense. AR 707 [4]
I'll be happy to field questions.
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the ONE God and is Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Blessings,
Dave
“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”expert ventriloquism:
--John 17:25&26
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”self-conflict:
--Matthew 17:5
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”double vision:
--Matthew 26:39
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”self denial:
--Matthew 26:64
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
--Matthew 27:45-46
From the study: John 16:25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God. 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”
A. John 16:25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God. 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”With this:
B. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the ONE God and is Father, Son and Holy SpiritA does not equal B.
Our freepers like Rn, metmom, jllh, fishtank, theo get me confused about who would be clubbed under that umbrella term Protestant?
Jesus would be considered a Protestant.
Against whom did He point most of his righteous anger? Toward the corruption of the church that the Godhead had established.
I join Jesus in defying such corruption, and in calling men and women to repentance and faith in Christ alone.
“Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the ONE God and is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
Um. So, no Trinity? No Godhead? No Community within Himself?
Whew. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying. Sounds like you’re saying that Jesus prayed to Himself, and submitted His will to Himself? Surely you’re not promoted heresy?
Help me understand.
You are mistaken. You think salvation is found in a “club.”
No, salvation and life are found within Christ.
How would you explain the Baptism of Jesus Christ then? When Mt 3:16-17
| 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. |
If you say Jesus IS God the Father, what exactly do you mean by this, please could you explain?
so, Theo — are Swedenborgians Protestants?
RM —> another case of poster making it personal and pretending to mind-read (incorrectly) saying “You think...”
wow, talk about historical revisionism. hello... Jesus was a Jew.
Jesus is the arm of God. He is also one of the separate persons of the Trinity.
Well, I just wikipedia’d Swedenborgians and it seems that they are a Protestant movement that arose in the 1600s in Sweden and the philosophy rejects the Trinity. I haven’t read enough about their philosophy, so it would be interesting to hear what Dave says
Why does it matter? Such a category is irrelevant.
Again, Jesus “protested” against the “church” that the Godhead had established through His covenant with Abraham, and further clarified through the Law given to Moses, decrying how it had become corrupted.
He called people to repentance and faith in Him, rather than adherence to a corrupted system of priests and “sacraments.”
In that sense, Jesus was clearly Protestant, generally a friend of sinners, and generally opposed to the mess that had become of the “official” church He had established millennia earlier.
Let me ask you: Did Jesus establish relationship directly with people, or was relationship with Christ only available through the age-old “church” and its priests and adherence to its customs?
Cronos: are Swedenborgians Protestants?
Theo: Such a category is irrelevant.
contradictory statements again.....
Johnny Appleseed was a Swedenborgian.
I regard non Catholic Christians who are not Eastern Orthodox as Protestants in general. How they farther divide into sects is a bit more complicated and depends both on their historic orgin and their current doctrine.
But for simplicity I use Protestant or if I know they are Calvinist “Reformed.”
Hm. There’s nothing “contra-dictory” about what I wrote.
Issue one:
You want to associate the heresy of the “Swedenborgians” with other non-Roman Catholic denominations. You do this by putting Baptists and Swedenborgians in the same category, “Protestant.” I’m not playing your game.
Issue two:
You place a GREAT DEAL of emphasis on denomination, as though we are saved through our denomination, or damned through our denomination. But that is incorrect. We are saved through Christ, or damned outside of Christ.
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