Posted on 01/09/2012 10:38:02 PM PST by rzman21
But let’s not forget, Calvin was initially a Catholic..
>>So was Nestorius.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Did God tell us who Jesus was? Did the Holy Spirit tell the apostles what to write?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.<<
"ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of GOd may be PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works." 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27
19th century Presbyterian historian Philip Wace Schaff classifies Nestorianism as a form of adoptionism in his book “History of the Christian Church.”
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc4.i.xi.xii.html
The following article was written by Mar Bawai Soro, a former Assyrian (Nestorian) bishop, regarding the Church of the East’s view of Nestorius:
http://bit.ly/z9ySVH
“As individuals, individual ideas of what scripture means abounds”
Yes. And we will be JUDGED by God as individuals.
“Again, one man thinks some days of more importance than others. Another man considers them all alike. Let every one be definite in his own convictions. If a man specially observes one particular day, he does so “to God”. The man who eats, eats “to God”, for he thanks God for the food. The man who fasts also does it “to God”, for he thanks God for the benefits of fasting. The truth is that we neither live nor die as self-contained units. At every turn life links us to God, and when we die we come face to face with him. In life or death we are in the hands of God. Christ lived and died that he might be the Lord in both life and death.
10-12 Why, then, criticise your brother’s actions, why try to make him look small? We shall all be judged one day, not by each other’s standards or even our own, but by the standard of Christ. It is written: ‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God’. It is to God alone that we have to answer for our actions.” - Romans 14
As for the Trinity...that there is one God and one God only is explicit and obvious. That God the Father is not Jesus, and Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, and that the Father, Son & Holy Spirit are referred to as persons is also obvious.
How that works out is not taught or discussed by scripture. I take that to mean it isn’t very important to our salvation or to becoming like Christ - and those are apparently more important in God’s eyes than our being able to dissect God.
“If a person says that Christ was a man, “adopted” as God’s son, do you believe that has no effect on their salvation?”
That would suggest Christ is not eternally God, which contradicts scripture. At some point, believing in Jesus means believing accurately enough to be believing in the REAL Jesus, and not a fake.
What matters for salvation is getting the right Jesus. When I converted at 12, I didn’t have a clue about any discussion of the Trinity - but I had met the real Jesus. With time, my theology - knowing about God - has hopefully improved. Had I believed in the ‘wrong’ Jesus, either the scriptures and teachings of men gifted by the Holy Spirit to teach would have converted me to the real Jesus, and THEN I would be saved, or I would have rejected the REAL Jesus and insisted in following the fake.
When discussing a CHURCH, I find the Trinity to be one of the most accurate ways of discerning if the church is true or false. Three Persons, One God - that makes no sense to me, or to anyone really. It is beyond my imagination. I have never seen a church or teacher who denied the Trinity who wasn’t also in error in many other areas. I believe the Catholic Church is in error in many areas, but it has held firm to the basics of the Trinity...although it may have also tried to add to what little God has revealed. Still, it gets that right, and that is why I believe that there are still many Christian Catholics. It is knowing God that saves us, not getting high scores on a systematic theology test.
But an individual may be saved without having clue one about what is meant by the Trinity, or to what extent it is taught in scripture. I was. In time, God used both the scriptures and godly men to teach me that Three Persons / One God is true, even if it makes no sense to me.
But I trust the concept because it is revealed in scripture. I do not trust the more detailed explanations offered by church councils.
From my perspective, there is ample truth about God and how He would have me live revealed in scripture that I am not living by right now. That is sin. God wants me to take that sin seriously, and to change me into the image of Jesus Christ. “For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” - Romans 8
I am more concerned about the sin in my life that shames God than I am in a detailed, intellectual description of the nature of God Himself. The God-breathed scriptures make it obvious that God cares more about that as well.
Religion makes salvation way more complicated than God intended it to be.
Romans 10:8-13 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Amen and Amen! Well put!
U dib;t understand why this thread has turned into an open thread rather than an ecumenical thread with now antagonism.
I really don’t understand your ping to me to this Ecumenical thread unless the purpose is to elicit an antagonistic response and get my comment pulled.
If that is the case then the Ecumenical tag should be changed.
So why exactly are you pinging me when so far I’ve not chosen to comment on this thread?
no, i did not hit the abuse button, never have, never will. i would let those that oppose the Body of Christ expose themselves. that’s just me.
but if someone is going to post on FR, they need to follow the rules of FR.
just saying.
the JW’s and Mormons think they are following sola scriptura. they condemn sacred tradition and Church Councils.
Those that oppose God’s Body, also, opposes His Word with man-made doctrine that voids His Word for them. Can’t serve two masters.
Keeping the RF rules in mind when posting and not just for finger pointing is what I’m saying.
Nestorian doctrine is built on a pagan Aristotelian framework that Evangelicalism, despite its commitment to abhor paganism and be unphilosophical, has imbibed.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2831700/posts?page=1
“the JW’s and Mormons think they are following sola scriptura. they condemn sacred tradition and Church Councils.”
Actually, JWs change scripture to read what they want, and Mormons place their other scriptures above the Bible, saying the Bible is good only as far as it is correctly translated - which mean only until it disagrees with one of their teachings.
Neither accepts sola scriptura. The Book of Mormon isn’t exactly under the doctrine of sola scriptura, is it?
Pinging me to another ecumenical thread when the rules have not been clearly defined but what I’ve seen so far is catholics feel antagonized when TRUTH is spoken. Who you kidding?
Worshiping idols is pagan. Maryology is pagan. Bowing to a man/pope is pagan.
Worshiping idols is pagan. Maryology is pagan. Bowing to a man/pope is pagan.
>>Your response amounts to antagonism.
Exactly, JW and Mormonism do their own thing, just like catholicsm. However, from what I’ve seen - these threads don’t take kindly to TRUTH.
TRUTH is antagonism? God’s WORD is antagonism? I only know what paganism is by HIS WORD!
Actually, JWs change scripture to read what they want, and Mormons place their other scriptures above the Bible, saying the Bible is good only as far as it is correctly translated - which mean only until it disagrees with one of their teachings.
Neither accepts sola scriptura. The Book of Mormon isn’t exactly under the doctrine of sola scriptura, is it?
>>They are products of a culture built by Sola Scriptura individualism.
The JWs, Seventh Day Adventists, Church of Christ, etc. adhere to Sola Scriptura.
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