Skip to comments.Mormons opening up in an Internet world [& Losing members accordingly]
Posted on 02/01/2012 3:38:25 AM PST by Colofornian
Richard L. Bushman...wrote in 2005 "Rough Stone Rolling..." "I first became aware of the problems shortly after 'Rough Stone Rolling' came out...I thought I was getting these emails asking for help..."
Then Bushman heard that many other scholars were also being beset with queries from members of the LDS Church who had encountered something on the Internet that had shaken their faith. He began to hear the same thing from ordinary Mormons who had friends or family who were having problems. He also heard from people at BYU how it was a problem there as well. People were encountering things about church history and losing their faith...
"I've been aware that the LDS Church has been concerned about this for quite a while," he said...
Reuters recently wrote about a question and answer session at Utah State University with LDS Church historian Elder Marlin K. Jensen. Jensen acknowledged some people are surprised and troubled by what they read...
He told Reuters there have been more attrition over the last five or ten years..."I think we are at a time of challenge," he told Reuters...
John Dehlin...executive director of the Open Stories Foundation. The foundation conducted a survey that Dehlin said suggests disaffections have trended upward the last three to six years...like Peterson and Bushman, Dehlin said the number of people contacting him about having doubts has "grown exponentially."
Peterson said...that people discover this or that historical fact they had never heard before. They then feel like the church had been hiding the fact and so lose a sense of trust.
Bushman said it is important that people in the church do not reject those who have questions. "That is the problem," Bushman said. "They think nobody in the church thinks about anything..."
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
#1 Per this article, Lds Scholar Richard Bushman has noticed a significant uptick with Mormon having historical problems over the past half-dozen years or so.
#2 This is reinforced by Lds church historian Marlin Jensen, who per the article: He told Reuters there have been more attrition over the last five or ten years..."I think we are at a time of challenge," he told Reuters...
#3 From the article: The Open Stories Foundation "conducted a survey that Dehlin said suggests disaffections have trended upward the last three to six years...
What are the key sources for Mormon heartburn that's removing their "burning bosoms?"
(a) The Internet: From the article: ...Bushman heard that many other scholars were also being beset with queries from members of the LDS Church who had encountered something on the Internet that had shaken their faith. He began to hear the same thing from ordinary Mormons who had friends or family who were having problems. He also heard from people at BYU how it was a problem there as well. People were encountering things about church history and losing their faith...
Mormons: You're not alone...re: these doubts in Mormonism. You can have the REAL, Ultimate God revealed unto you. But you're not alone...leave the Mormon church.
(b) History of Mormonism/Joseph Smith: From the article: Reuters recently wrote about a question and answer session at Utah State University with LDS Church historian Elder Marlin K. Jensen. Jensen acknowledged some people are surprised and troubled by what they read...
From the article: Peterson said...that people discover this or that historical fact they had never heard before. They then feel like the church had been hiding the fact and so lose a sense of trust.
So...the Mormon church and its leadership has been besieged by historical (& probably doctrinal) questions since around 2005. So, you would think they took Bushman's advice and "stepped it up" in providing people to answer those questions, right?
One criteria of a cult it: THOUGHT CONTROL, PLACING SHARP LIMITS ON DOCTRINAL QUESTIONING.
Here's a sampling from Mormon automaton thought from 1899-->2010!
Circa October 2010:
It's Oct. 24, 2010. Just weeks earlier, the Lds faithful had gathered for one of their two key 'y'all" come meetings in Salt Lake City, which are fed via satellite around the world to Mormons who can't make the trek to SLC. You would have thought that if an earth-shaking announcement needed to be made, it would have been made there. It wasn't. Perhaps too much media glare was on the conference. Therefore, more quietly, Lds leadership sent a world-wide circular letter to all church members. Here's two sources for that:
Source 1: Quit pestering us, church leaders tell membership in letter
Source 2 -- from a Mormon columnist, Robert Kirby: Wrestling with doctrine no match for me
From the first source:
On October 24th, the LDS First Presidency (led by Prophet Thomas S. Monson) wrote several letters that were to be read in Mormon Sunday services around the world. According to examiner.com, the first letter was likely spurred by Boyd K. Packers most recent General Conference talk entitled Cleansing the Inner Vessel. Church Headquarters has been receiving an increased amount of correspondence from its members about doctrinal issues. Because of this influx of correspondence, the First Presidency reminded and encouraged LDS church members to utilize their local church authorities bishops, branch presidents, stake presidents, etc before resorting to contacting Church Headquarters. In other words, the Mormon laity was told to quit bothering their church leadership on issues related to doctrine. We can only wonder why the church is apparently receiving so many inquiries.
From the second source (Kirby): With only partial tongue in cheek, Kirby said: "According to the First Presidencys letter, members with real doctrinal concerns were to seek the counsel of our local leaders stake president, bishop, Scoutmaster, building custodian, etc."
Why? Well, per Kirby: "The letter...told/counseled rank-and-file Mormons to stop pestering church headquarters for clarification of church doctrine. Apparently some members get so stressed about the finer points of doctrine that theyll fire off a letter asking for the final word. Church HQ cant handle the demand...
There ya go. Just as the Wall Street Journal writer said: "placing sharp limits on doctrinal questioning" [Many an Lds historian has commented on this as well...do your own Google search with the words "faith promoting" in quotations...add the words "historian" and "Lds" to the search for better specific results]
Harry Reid and Glenn Beck says it all for me.
Oh, how could I forget Mitt Romney?
My first exposure to Momonism, years ago, was from reading Zane Grey’s “Riders of the Purple Sage.” Although that is fiction, all the facts I’ve read in the ensuing years have backed up and reinforced the phoniness of this “religion.” I have long said that Mormonism was the blueprint for Scientology.
"So we will just answer the questions that should have been asked. Change the subject or just lie out right." That's how we (the leadership) will deal with questions. (eye roll)
I usually preach that if they are not against us like Obama, they are for us.
However satan is poised to make a mockery of
Christians through the lack of confidence other
faithes have when facing the “Universe Pope of Sciece”
Sadly, why would people of science turn to Islam which is all against?
Money, politics and sins of selling these new
products to any savage out there is tantalizing.
They will sell the ropes with which we will hang or shackle them with.
Liberals like Lewis Sinclaire love to brag how
Mormins, unlike Christians, are the only
religion born without blood shed.
This is why Romeny is a socialist, not paying heed
to the blood of tax payers paying for the sins
This is terrible. Mormons as a result are much
like the Time Machine characters of HG Wells.
They are depressed and none are chivalrous, but
cold and cowardly, prone to narcissism.
CHRISTIANS (Bible literate ones) have HAD it and are fighting back with INFORMATION!
Deal with it!
Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.
The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.
The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.
The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.
Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.
When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.
In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.
As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.
What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.
In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.
There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.
And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.
DAMN you Inmen!!
JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?
JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?
JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?
JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!
JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.
JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!
JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.
JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.
JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?
JOSEPH SMITH: This? At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30)
JESUS: That's it.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: Nah - it was right.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.
JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.
JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!
JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?
JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....
JESUS: What did you say?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.
JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.
JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?
JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!
JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: No; it wasn't.
JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?
JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?
JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.
JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.
JOSEPH SMITH: But....
Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
* Believing that youre better than others
* Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
* Exaggerating your achievements or talents
* Expecting constant praise and admiration
* Believing that youre special and acting accordingly
* Failing to recognize other peoples emotions and feelings
* Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
* Taking advantage of others
* Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
* Being jealous of others
* Believing that others are jealous of you
* Trouble keeping healthy relationships
* Setting unrealistic goals
* Being easily hurt and rejected
* Having a fragile self-esteem
* Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, its not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem dont value themselves more than they value others.
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you dont receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having the best of everything the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. Im Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you dont!
2. Im Superior; I have Gods true priesthood power -- you dont!
3. Im Superior; I can go in Gods secret Temple -- you cant!
4. Im Superior; Ive been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- youre just normal!
5. Im Superior; Ill have my family with me in heaven -- youll be with strangers!
6. Im Superior; Im becoming a God -- you arent!
7. Im Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours dont.
8. Im Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
9. Im Superior; I dont HAVE a creed - Ive got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. Im Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. -- You cant.
12. Im Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics --
-- Youre a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. Im Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. Im Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you dont.
18. Im Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you dont ;so you cant.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. Im Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- Youre on your own; when you get to wherever youre going!
21. Im Superior; Im going to hie to Kolob -- youre going to who knows where.
22. Im Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you dont.
23. Im Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
-- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. Im Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26. I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.
Looks like the internet was made of this time,to enlighten
FR was created for just this purpose, to enlighten
MITT ROMNEY has arrived for just this time, to save the day for the LDS.
If Mitt is elected president, people will FLOCK to LDS, just for the curosity of the cult. Just sad, robot minds.
MITT ROMNEY tied with Obama.