[betty boop]

"The model that it all happened miraculously is absolutely useless in terms of application and further discovery about the natural world.”

So claims our brother allmendeam.

But I wonder: What could be more "miraculous" than a Universe that did not have a beginning in time and space? How can anything be anything without what the philosophers call a first cause? Even a pure mechanist could appreciate the idea of a first mover to set up the resultant chain reaction of successive causes down the line, a la billiard balls.

In my view, there is no "before" the Beginning; there is no "before" the Big Bang. The singularity may be viewed as instantiating the Logos of Genesis 1. Yet from the scientific standpoint, it is simply pointless to speculate about such things, since the human mind, and all its science, cannot ever go there to see.

I would just like to point out to my dear brother AMD that the Holy Scriptures actually tell us that there was a Beginning, a First Cause, Logos Alpha to Omega.

And that is why we have a "lawful" universe — an absolute prerequisite to any kind of rational thinking at all — scientific, philosophical, theological, religious. FWIW.

Thanks ever so much for writing dear sister in Christ!

[BrandtMichaels]

In fact so well put in 358 and 359 that you rendered amd speechless - first time I’ve ever seen that one...

[Alamo-Girl]

I would just like to point out to my dear brother AMD that the Holy Scriptures actually tell us that there was a Beginning, a First Cause, Logos Alpha to Omega.

And that is why we have a "lawful" universe — an absolute prerequisite to any kind of rational thinking at all — scientific, philosophical, theological, religious. FWIW.

So very true. Thank you for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

[exDemMom]

"The model that it all happened miraculously is absolutely useless in terms of application and further discovery about the natural world.”

So claims our brother allmendeam.

I tend to agree with allmendream on this. From a working scientific viewpoint, metaphysical considerations really are irrelevant. Many people are familiar with the chemical process of cake baking. First, all the reagents are mixed together. Next, they are subjected to high heat that drives the chemical reactions. This process works equally well for Christians of any denomination, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, atheists, or anyone adhering to any other faith. As a scientist, the recipes I mix usually fit into a space smaller than a drop of water, but are equally unaffected by religious faith or considerations.

As a scientist, I am perfectly happy to let people who feel compelled to consider metaphysical matters do so. I'm fairly certain that whatever experiments I do in my test tubes or on my computer are equally non-relevant to their work.