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Outraged by Mormon proxy baptism? Not this Jew
Jewish World Review ^
| 3/1/2012
| Jeff Jacoby
Posted on 03/01/2012 7:19:27 AM PST by Former Fetus
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Here's some common sense, hard to find these days! I like the way the author puts it: "By my lights, their efforts to make salvation available to millions of deceased strangers were ineffectual". It made me think. If, for example, a pagan came and put a curse on me, would that worry me? The answer is "certainly not!" Hopefully I would not think twice about it. Maybe that's the way Jews should take Mormon proxy baptism. Again, to quote the author, "the Jewish people have very real, very dangerous enemies. Mormons undergoing peaceful rituals in their own temples aren't on the list."
To: Former Fetus
no after-the-fact rites in this world can possibly change the Jewishness of the men, women, children, and babies whom the Nazis, in their obsessive hatred singled out for extermination. Someone should let Jacoby know that even willful conversions while alive do not alter the halachic status of anyone who was born Jewish.
ML/NJ
2
posted on
03/01/2012 7:27:48 AM PST
by
ml/nj
To: Former Fetus
A lot of our people use the Holocaust as an excuse to search the world every day for something to be offended about, are even more offended, as well as severly depressed, if a day passes without being offended.
Your analogy to being cursed by a pagan is appropriate. Unless one believes that a post mortem baptism actually converts the deceased to a religion other than Judaism, what’s the big deal? I’m equally baffled by the practice, and the outrage to it.
To: Former Fetus
I have a cousin who converted to a rather stringent splinter sect of the LDS. He has baptised everybody in our extensive family tree, including our common gg grandfather who was a Baptist deacon and from all reports a rather short-tempered man.
If Grandpa Long had known about being baptised a Mormon in life, he probably would have been apoplectic. As he is now where he knows as he is known (and has been since 1870), if he's heard about it at all he probably thinks it's funny.
Of course, by my lights (Catholic) such a baptism is not only ineffective because it is posthumous, but also because it is not Trinitarian.
No harm no foul in my estimation.
And I agree that the Jews have stuff that is way ahead of this on the 'to do list'.
4
posted on
03/01/2012 7:28:24 AM PST
by
AnAmericanMother
(Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
To: Former Fetus
Mormons undergoing peaceful rituals in their own temples aren't on the list." Mormons should keep it to their own who are in the faith and not disrespect others and families who are left behind.
5
posted on
03/01/2012 7:29:13 AM PST
by
dragonblustar
(Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
To: Former Fetus
My soul belongs to God and nothing any Mormon, muslim, buddhist, atheist, etc says over my body means a thing.
If they ever come for my coffee, we’ll have a problem.
6
posted on
03/01/2012 7:47:48 AM PST
by
cripplecreek
(What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
To: Daveinyork
Dave, it's a belief in "word magic" ~ sometimes described as the belief that a "word can bind God".
Hindus were really deep into that stuff back in the days when the Mahabarat/Ramayana was being developed.
I think you recognize the concept.
Frankly, I don't believe in magic, witch-craft, nor binding God with a word. It's so pre-Medieval!
7
posted on
03/01/2012 7:56:43 AM PST
by
muawiyah
To: dragonblustar
It's their theology; not mine; not yours. But I have an advantage over you guys ~ bunch of my ancestors were involved in a MUTUAL EXCOMMUNICATION with the Mormons ~ Joseph Smith banned them from their "book" ~ which is this enormous genealogy thing.
That's covered in the Doctrines and Covenants circa 1836 ~
What you might do to make sure they leave your descendants alone is marry one of my cousins.
8
posted on
03/01/2012 8:01:13 AM PST
by
muawiyah
To: Former Fetus
The discovery didn't trouble me at all. In Judaism, conversion after death is a concept without meaning; no after-the-fact rites in this world can possibly change the Jewishness of the men, women, children, and babies whom the Nazis, in their obsessive hatred, singled out for extermination. I found the Mormons' belief eccentric, not offensive. By my lights, their efforts to make salvation available to millions of deceased strangers were ineffectual. But plainly they were sincere, and intended as a kindness.Finally, someone who makes perfect sense on this issue, and who says it much better than I ever could.
9
posted on
03/01/2012 8:01:45 AM PST
by
Zionist Conspirator
(Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
To: Former Fetus
10
posted on
03/01/2012 8:09:54 AM PST
by
NonValueAdded
(Limbaugh: Tim Tebow miracle: "He had atheists praying to God that he would lose.")
To: muawiyah
Madonna wears that red cloth around her wrist that is somehow related to her Kabbalism, supposedly for good luck. It’s extreme chutzpa to think that we can manipulate the Divine will.
Likewise, it’s extreme chutzpa to think that post mortem baptizing of someone makes that person a Mormon or a Christian, when that person was by choice a Jew in life. But, unless we believe that it works, then what’s the big deal - for any side of this argument?
To: Former Fetus
There’s some excellent genealogical research that results from these “baptisms.” Save time and money by letting Mormons do the heavy-lifting.
12
posted on
03/01/2012 8:25:10 AM PST
by
Oratam
To: Former Fetus
13
posted on
03/01/2012 8:31:08 AM PST
by
Vendome
(Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
To: Former Fetus
All of the posters here who have said that they "wouldn't be worried" if, e.g., a pagan cast a spell upon them should nonetheless reocgnize and accept the right of Jews (and others) to be
offended by the Mormon practice of posthumous baptism.
Regards,
To: alexander_busek
“Dead-dunking” is one way the Mormons purport to claim that their conversion numbers are ever-rising.
This and the LDS’ vast genealogical research to that end make Chicago-style dead voter registration look amateurish in comparison.
15
posted on
03/01/2012 9:30:20 AM PST
by
elcid1970
("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
To: alexander_busek
“All of the posters here who have said that they “wouldn’t be worried” if, e.g., a pagan cast a spell upon them should nonetheless reocgnize and accept the right of Jews (and others) to be offended by the Mormon practice of posthumous baptism.”
Some people can’t be happy unless they are offended by something. Maybe today I’ll be offended by those who are offended. Then tomorrow, some other pleasurable outrage. Have a happy (offensive) day!
16
posted on
03/01/2012 10:03:31 AM PST
by
TexasRepublic
(Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
To: Former Fetus
Why would you want to defend and promote this practice?
What has driven you to jump in and advance Mormonism?
You have become a pro-Mormonism activist, not indifferent.
17
posted on
03/01/2012 10:38:39 AM PST
by
ansel12
(Newt Gingrich knows how to deconstruct Obama in a head to head race, and that is what it will take.)
To: Oratam
Theres some excellent genealogical research that results from these baptisms. The Mormons are stalking us and our loved ones, to use us, by name, with someone speaking in our voice, in their cult ceremonies, done in secret by cult leaders like Bishop Mitt Romney.
18
posted on
03/01/2012 10:42:57 AM PST
by
ansel12
(Newt Gingrich knows how to deconstruct Obama in a head to head race, and that is what it will take.)
To: alexander_busek
There are, of course, Jews who are offended at "the name of Jesus", or Christian prayer (gotta' warn 'em it's coming up so they can get out of there 'til it's over), or even offended at the idea SOMEBODY ELSE, e.g. Christians, might make use of their holy books.
Frankly, I don't care how offended they get. It's none of their business.
I think of everybody who gets offended at what I do, think or say as being rather offensive themselves ~ just hope I don't get angry ~ there's some "hidden redhead" stuff in there.
19
posted on
03/01/2012 10:44:28 AM PST
by
muawiyah
To: ansel12
So what ~ it’s like somebody reading a phone book.
20
posted on
03/01/2012 10:45:15 AM PST
by
muawiyah
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