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In Great Britain, can Christians be fired for wearing a cross? (Archbishop calls cross 'Jewelry')
American Thinker ^ | 03/12/2012 | Rick Moran

Posted on 03/13/2012 6:31:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Well, sure. Why not? After all, unlike the Muslim hijab, there is no "requirement" that Christians wear a cross, says the British government.

______________________

In what is bound to be a controversial move, the British government is set to argue at the European Court of Human Rights that Christians do not have the right to wear a cross or crucifix openly at work.

Critics are already calling it another blow to Christianity for restricting its symbols of faith while granting special status to symbols of other religions such as the Sikh turban and kara (bracelet), or the Muslim hijab.

The London Telegraph has revealed ministers will argue that because it is not a "requirement" of the Christian faith, employers can ban the wearing of the cross and sack workers who insist on doing so.

Judges in Strasbourg will hear the test case on religious freedom in Britain later this year. It will bring together four separate cases, including that of Nadia Eweida, who works for British Airways. Her case dates from 2006 when she was suspended for refusing to take off the cross which her employers claimed breached BA's uniform code.

In a surprise move Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, added fuel to the fire when he said the cross for many Christians is little more than jewellery, "which religious people make and hang on to" as a substitute for true faith.

_____________________

Williams also wants to see sharia law in Great Britain so anything he says about his own faith can be dismissed as the rantings of a lunatic.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: britain; cross; uk
As an aside, what is the correct spelling of the word anyway? J-E-W-E-L-R-Y ? or jewellery ?
1 posted on 03/13/2012 6:31:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Take the Christians to the Colosseum and bring in the LIONS!
2 posted on 03/13/2012 6:37:45 AM PDT by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: SeekAndFind
Moslems aren't required to wear scarfs as a religious matter ~ that's strictly cultural ~ secular if you will.

In much of East Africa Copts have a cross tattooed between the eyes so they won't forget who they are.

Once more the English authorities imagine the world revolves on their dime.

3 posted on 03/13/2012 6:42:56 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind

Archbishop is right. When taking religion completely out of the arguement, the archbishop wins. If I were a non-muslim getting a photo I.D. and tried to cover my hair/face with a headscarf, I would be asked to remove it. On the other hand, if I was wearing a modest necklace, would I be asked to remove it? I don’t think so.


4 posted on 03/13/2012 6:44:26 AM PDT by marstegreg
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To: marstegreg

When you take religion completely out of the argument, what is an ‘archbishop’?


5 posted on 03/13/2012 6:46:26 AM PDT by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"The London Telegraph has revealed ministers will argue that because it is not a "requirement" of the Christian faith"

What would these people know about what is and isn't a "requirement" of the Christian faith? My bible instructs me to follow my conscience and if an individual's conscience require them to wear a cross in order to remember to keep God's precepts in all their thoughts and actions then it is a requirement.

6 posted on 03/13/2012 6:46:35 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m looking up for the big “reset” asteroid.


7 posted on 03/13/2012 6:48:20 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: agere_contra

When you take religion completely out of the argument, what is an ‘archbishop’?

a person who has a good point.


8 posted on 03/13/2012 6:50:28 AM PDT by marstegreg
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To: SeekAndFind

Instead of bombing Iran, we should bomb London for trying to destroy Western Civilization. I guess we don’t need to,though. Having there crappy country destroyed will be punishment enough.


9 posted on 03/13/2012 6:53:21 AM PDT by FightThePower! (Fight the powers that be!)
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To: circlecity

RE: Requirement

What about the FREEDOM to wear what one wants within the bounds of societal decency?

It isn’t a requirement that I wear Green on a day that isn’t Saint Patrick’s Day... what then? I should be fired if I do?


10 posted on 03/13/2012 6:55:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: SeekAndFind
In a surprise move Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, added fuel to the fire when he said the cross for many Christians is little more than jewellery

This, from the same guy who submits to the idea that shariah law in Britain is "inevitable."

Sounds like a case of making nice to the future overlords. Well... your new masters will still want you dead, Mr. Williams.

11 posted on 03/13/2012 6:58:07 AM PDT by ScottinVA (A single drop of American blood for muslims is one drop too much.)
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To: agere_contra

“... when you take religion completely out... what is an archbishop?”

Excellent, excellent point! Wouldn’t an archbishop also NOT be necessary to be a Christian? Wouldn’t he just be “jewelry” to a church?


12 posted on 03/13/2012 6:58:55 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: SeekAndFind
"The CROSS for many christians is little more than jewellery"

Rowan Williams
Archbishop of Canterbury

13 posted on 03/13/2012 7:10:46 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for." ~Mark Steyn)
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To: SeekAndFind
"The CROSS for many christians is little more than jewellery"

Rowan Williams
Archbishop of Canterbury

14 posted on 03/13/2012 7:10:46 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for." ~Mark Steyn)
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To: Savage Beast

Where are the soccer hooligans when they are needed?


15 posted on 03/13/2012 7:12:19 AM PDT by hal ogen (1st Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: marstegreg
On the other hand, if I was wearing a modest necklace, would I be asked to remove it? I don’t think so

The air stewardess mentioned in the article was asked to forced to remove her modest little cross/crucifix necklace.

16 posted on 03/13/2012 7:14:20 AM PDT by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: momtothree

Williams is certainly no true successor to the apostles: he is (as you say!) a piece of increasingly meaningless jewelry wrapped tightly around the neck of a Potemkin church.


17 posted on 03/13/2012 7:19:55 AM PDT by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Would it be a sin (spiritual or temporal) to tattoo a cross to your cheek?


18 posted on 03/13/2012 7:40:31 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Savage Beast
Archbishop of Canterbury, added fuel to the fire when he said the cross for many Christians is little more than [ jewelry ], which religious people make and hang on to as a substitute for true faith.

This man needs a seminary revisit at the very least; a reading of Roman Catholic Dogma should be a necessity as well.

But then, the Vatican NewChurch accepted his return to the flock without the condition of the Holy Sacraments of Penance and Baptism.

God save us from the blasphemy and heresy now commonplace in the halls of the Vatican, and its' leaderhip ranks throughout the world. Heavenly Father, save the faithful from the 'ordained' evil.

19 posted on 03/13/2012 8:45:13 AM PDT by Robert Drobot (Fiat voluntas tua)
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To: Robert Drobot

??

Source please.


20 posted on 03/13/2012 9:00:13 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Robert Drobot
Is there a difference between evil and stupidity? Evil is the ultimate stupidity, but, though their stupidity produces evil--sometimes great evil, I think some stupid people are not really evil but merely stupid. Maybe Williams is merely stupid.

Many Leftists--perhaps most of them--and even some of their leaders--are merely stupid, too stupid to comprehend the evil that results from their stupidity.

Some of these people know that they are stupid and are following the examples of those they deem more intelligent.

Some of them however do not know how stupid they are, especially those who, like idiots savants, find within themselves channels of intelligence that reassure them that they are not stupid, but who lack the wit (or the desire) to understand how limited these channels actually are.

I'm thinking of a theoretical physicist whom I saw on television and who is obviously quite intelligent in the field of theoretical physics but whose thinking outside this limited field are astonishingly stupid--and he has no comprehension of this because his intelligence in this narrow field convinces him that he is intelligent in all ways, though he is woefully not.

People like this declare themselves--in spite of themselves--constantly: in acedemia, on television, celebrities, self-appointed experts and spokespersons--everywhere.

The world is full of such un-self-aware idiots savants, and because of their lack of self-awareness they are dangerous.

21 posted on 03/13/2012 9:34:20 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for." ~Mark Steyn)
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To: agere_contra

The point I am trying to make is that if a crucifix is asked to be removed and it is a necklace then ALL necklaces need to be removed otherwise it is strictly religiuos persecution. Perhaps I didn’t make my point clear (I am on your side.)


22 posted on 03/13/2012 9:39:44 AM PDT by marstegreg
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To: agere_contra

The point I am trying to make is that if a crucifix is asked to be removed and it is a necklace then ALL necklaces need to be removed otherwise it is strictly religiuos persecution. Perhaps I didn’t make my point clear (I am on your side.)


23 posted on 03/13/2012 9:40:20 AM PDT by marstegreg
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To: SeekAndFind

All the enmity against Biblical Christianity taking place nowadays is evidence to me that Christianity actually is the true religion.

What other belief system has done so much good and had so much hatered and contempt poured upon it lately.

Of course the Jews have historically had a lot, so I don’t mean to dowgrade their experiences. But, I may be wrong, still it seems to me that Jew-hatred was far more ethnically based than based on their particular belief system.


24 posted on 03/13/2012 10:54:58 AM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: chesley

JESUS SAID : “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.” ( Matthew 10:22)


25 posted on 03/13/2012 10:58:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: SeekAndFind

Bingo!!!

Seems to me that fulfilled prophecy is evidence of Truth.


26 posted on 03/13/2012 12:19:58 PM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: Savage Beast

I think the technical term for the people you describe is neither “stupid”, “idiot”, nor even “ignorant”. I believe the proper term is “fool”.


27 posted on 03/13/2012 12:23:18 PM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: chesley

Yes. Thank you. They are fools.


28 posted on 03/13/2012 3:03:41 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for." ~Mark Steyn)
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To: SeekAndFind; circlecity; momtothree; marstegreg; Savage Beast; agere_contra

I’ve been seeing these ‘anti-crucifixion” articles recently and wondering exactly where does Jesus or G-d command that I must keep & “venerate” any symbols to prove my faith to G-d? I have no symbols in my home nor as bumper stickers on my car and I don’t feel any less faithful to G-d. I’m pretty keen on Jesus’ words as well as intertestamental history and nowhere am I commanded to worship symbols. In fact, the last time I checked it was the “worshipping & keeping” of symbols that initiates evil.
But then again perhaps I’m less of a faithful follower because I don’t walk around boasting to everyone through the jewelry I should be wearing or boastful symbols I should be plastering all over my house.
For me this whole issue isn’t an issue because is doesn’t need to be. It shouldn’t matter what trinkets and idols are taken from someone, if their faith is true then it’s an internal thing that can never be taken from them. Otherwise it’s just a weakness to be exploited by evil.


29 posted on 03/15/2012 1:42:56 PM PDT by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great site for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
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To: brent13a

One doesn’t have to wear religious jewelry to be Christian or live a Christian life. However, I do and I will tell you why. Historically, many Christians had to hide their faith. They had to practice their religion secretly. I like to wear a crucifix simply because I feel I keep Christ close to me. I also have a rosary in my car for the same reason. Wearing a cross, crucifix or a star of David in today’s climate takes courage. You are openly expressing to others that you are a Catholic/Christian or Jew AND your faith means something to you. You can be open to any sort of liberal hostility. As a Christian, I am willing to tolerate such hostility for my faith.

I find it odd that you said that “it shouldn’t matter what trinkets are taken from someone, if their faith is true then it’s an internal thing...” Do you feel the same way about Churches? Would you mind if all of them were demolished? Wouldn’t a persons faith still be intact if our landscape was void of them?

You see a cross as a symbol that “initiates evil”. I see it as a reminder of Christ and His love and salvation for us.


30 posted on 03/15/2012 1:57:25 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: brent13a

You’re missing the point entirely.


31 posted on 03/15/2012 2:03:59 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: Robert Drobot
Dude ...

Seriously.

The petty, pathetic ranting of self-righteous "traditionalists" can be amusing at times ...

but never more so when the ranter thinks that the Archbishop of Canterbury has anything to do with the "Roman" Catholic Church.

32 posted on 03/15/2012 2:13:13 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: brent13a

I think you are looking at it all wrong. I think for some (like myself) wearing a cross is a reminder to myself of what I believe. It is not a crutch but it does help people remember that God is with us all the time. It is not boastful, it is mindful. If something like an icon or a crucifix helps you be a better person then by all means wear one and if you don’t need it, don’t wear one. Not everyone is as strong as you are and need something to remind them and help them feel safe and protected. It is a personal choice and an exercise in religious freedom and should remain as such.


33 posted on 03/15/2012 2:26:48 PM PDT by marstegreg
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To: brent13a

What you say is true. I wear no religious symbols. On the other hand, the cross itself is a symbol. And, furthermore, the Archbishop of Canturbury demeans himself when he demeans those who do want and value visible symbols.


34 posted on 03/15/2012 4:08:10 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for." ~Mark Steyn)
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To: brent13a
...but that's not the real issue, I must confess. The real issue is that Rowan Williams is a fool. His remarks have little to do with it.

I am an Anglican. I have good reason to make this observation.

35 posted on 03/15/2012 4:11:24 PM PDT by Savage Beast ("When even casual sex requires a state welfare program, you're pretty much done for." ~Mark Steyn)
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To: FightThePower!
Having there crappy country destroyed will be punishment enough.

That would be "their crappy country", not "there crappy country", you illiterate yankee shitbag.

36 posted on 03/16/2012 3:44:52 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: ScottinVA
In a surprise move Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, added fuel to the fire when he said the cross for many Christians is little more than jewellery, "which religious people make and hang on to" as a substitute for true faith.

Read what he is actually saying. Ignore "surprise move" and "fuel to the fire". That is just media editing to highlight difference, trivialise the issue, and incite controversy. Now, to the actual statement. He is saying that many (not all) Christians think that wearing a piece of jewellery, a hunk of metal in a cross shape, means that they are 'Christian'. Instead of having true faith, they use a symbol as a substitute for it. They are fixated on external appearance, and not inner transformation. Its a bit like owning a bible but never reading it. Now, is that a true statement or not? Answer, honestly, yes. There are altogether too many 'Christians' who think, or more importantly act, like that.

37 posted on 03/16/2012 3:52:20 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: marstegreg

That’s a fair enough argument, but I dont think that is what Rowan Williams is getting at. There are people who think that a cross is just a nice bit of jewellery. There are people who think that “going through the motions” of Christian ritual, including wearing a cross, somehow make you a Christian. There are people who, even subconsciously, make the symbol more important than what it represents. And that nominalism is what he is criticising. And rightly so too.


38 posted on 03/16/2012 3:57:04 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

There are people who think that “going through the motions” of Christian ritual, including wearing a cross, somehow make you a Christian.

I see your point too. I had the misfortune of living with a very abousive and very religious couple for several years. When they wear religious articles they are only fooling themselves and everyone else for that matter. They will be dealt with....by a higher power than Rowan Williams. It is not up to him to decide who believes enough, it is Gods.


39 posted on 03/16/2012 6:58:27 AM PDT by marstegreg
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To: marstegreg
They will be dealt with....by a higher power than Rowan Williams. It is not up to him to decide who believes enough, it is Gods.

No it is not up to Rowan Williams to decide who believes enough. But it is up to him, as a minister of the faith, to point out where he thinks people are going wrong. If someone wears a cross and it supports and upholds them in their faith, then his words are not for them. If they are using symbols as a substitute for faith, then his words are a challenge.

Incidentally, he has just announced he is stepping down as Archbishop of Canterbury in December.

40 posted on 03/16/2012 2:47:31 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

If they are using symbols as a substitute for faith, then his words are a challenge.

We don’t know what’s in peoples hearts.

(I can’t believe he dropped a bomb like this and then announed his resignation). It sound like Rowan Williams may be fighting some demons of his own.


41 posted on 03/16/2012 4:50:17 PM PDT by marstegreg
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To: marstegreg

Its only a bomb if you follow the MSM’s logic. As for resignation, well it is nine months from now when he will be going, and he has been doing it for some few years now. Its quite a poisoned chalice at the best of times.


42 posted on 03/16/2012 5:25:48 PM PDT by Vanders9
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