Posted on 04/07/2012 3:40:18 PM PDT by NYer
Where is Christ after he dies on Friday afternoon and before he rises on Easter Sunday? Both Scripture and Tradition answer this question. Consider the following from a Second Century Sermon and also a mediation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
An Ancient Sermon:
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him – He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.” [From an Ancient Holy Saturday Homily ca 2nd Century]
Nothing could be more beautiful than that line addressed to Adam and Eve: I am your God, who, for your sake, became your Son.”
Scripture also testifies to Christ’s descent to the dead and what he did: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison….For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does. (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:6).
Consider also this from the Catechism on Christ’s descent to the dead, which I summarize and excerpt from CCC # 631-635
[The] first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell [is] that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.
But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there [1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:6; Heb. 13:20]. Scripture calls [this] abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew, or Hades in Greek – because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God [1 Peter 3:18-19].
Such [was] the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they awaited the Redeemer: It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior …whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”[cf Psalms 89:49; 1 Sam. 28:19; Ezek 32:17ff; Luke 16:22-26]
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.
[So] the gospel was preached even to the dead. The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”[1 Peter 4:6] Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying, destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage” [John 5:25; Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9].
Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”[Heb 2:14-15; Acts 3:15]
Oh?
I've missed that somehow.
Scriptures, please; since the following one has evidently confused me:
1 Corinthians 15:52...in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
There I was all set to be sleeping away, waiting. And now you say I'm not.
Ooops.
Paul did NOT say that this was how it was going to be, but that...
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
...those two little words tend to be overlooked.
oh???
Revelation 20:11-1511 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
It appears to me that there will be some SAVED folk standing there!
2 Corinthians 5 (NKJV)
5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Such as?
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ:
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Thank you for point that out. I have been hit over the head with that half a dozen times by various anti-Catholics.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
International Standard Version (©2008)
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from this body and to live with the Lord.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Because of this we trust and we long to depart from the body and to be with Our Lord.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
We are confident and prefer to live away from this body and to live with the Lord.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
American King James Version
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
American Standard Version
we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But we are confident, and have a good will to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Darby Bible Translation
we are confident, I say, and pleased rather to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
English Revised Version
we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
Webster's Bible Translation
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Weymouth New Testament
So we have a cheerful confidence, and we anticipate with greater delight being banished from the body and going home to the Lord.
World English Bible
We are courageous, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
Young's Literal Translation
we have courage, and are well pleased rather to be away from the home of the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
Do you think Paul is currently at home with the Lord?
Then you wish to stay ignorant of this facet of eternal existence. If death is as you define it then there should be no Scriptures that speak of the soul dying or being destroyed.
It's here - I don't feel like re-explaining it today, I've other things to do. If you change your mind:
III. THE MYSTERY OF LIFE AFTER DEATH -- THE PIT (GRAVE)
See III. A. 2. g. for where The Christ went.
Is that the case? Do you know...how the Bible uses the term soul and spirit?
Yes, I do. Ditto to the above.
I appreciate the time you’ve given. Thanks!
WHAT???
When He led captivity captive, He brought Paradise and the just souls who had been imprisoned in it with Him. By offering His Incorruptible Blood as the acceptable redemption and reconciliation price upon the True Mercy Seat in The Holiest Of All in The Heaven, He completed the redemption transaction and obtained admission of those saved souls.
Now, at death, one's soul enters either entrance into The Father's Presence, or one's soul goes to Sheol/Hell to await judgment and the Lake of Fire later. There is no Purgatory as such. In either case, one's current body goes into what is euphemistically called 'the grave.'
There is no further price to be paid than was incurred at the Cross. The only ticket in is ones committed irrevocable trust in The Faith of The Christ -- although one's works will be evaluated at the Judgment Seat of The Christ.
I do not know exactly what your question is. Care to share, Elsie? Answer would be much later, on this day.
The Anointed One is risen, ascended, and sitting at The Father's Right Hand until His enemies be made His footstool!
He is set to return for His Own still alive upon the very moment Our Father commands!
Be happy and saved this Resurrection Remembrance Day!!
Existence of particular judgment proved from Scripture
Ecclesiastes 11:9; 12:1 sq.; and Hebrews 9:27, are sometimes quoted in proof of the particular judgment, but though these passages speak of a judgment after death, neither the context nor the force of the words proves that the sacred writer had in mind a judgment distinct from that at the end of the world. The Scriptural arguments in defence of the particular judgment must be indirect. There is no text of which we can certainly say that it expressly affirms this dogma but there are several which teach an immediate retribution after death and thereby clearly imply a particular judgment. Christ represents Lazarus and Dives as receiving their respective rewards immediately after death. They have always been regarded as types of the just man and the sinner. To the penitent thief it was promised that his soul instantly on leaving the body would be in the state of the blessed: "This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). St. Paul (2 Corinthians 5) longs to be absent from the body that he may be present to the Lord, evidently understanding death to be the entrance into his reward (cf. Philemon 1:21 sq.). Ecclesiasticus 11:28-29 speaks of a retribution at the hour of death, but it may refer to a temporal punishment, such as sudden death in the midst of prosperity, the evil remembrance that survives the wicked or the misfortunes of their children. However, the other texts that have been quoted are sufficient to establish the strict conformity of the doctrine with Scripture teaching. (Cf. Acts 1:25; Apocalypse 20:4-6, 12-14)
This is what Catholics believe.
Several doctrines are involved.
Doctrine of the Anthropology of man as being trichotomous, body, soul, and spirit. Jesus Christ, being the 2nd Adam was perfect in body, soul, and human spirit.
Doctrine of Death. Death is a state of existence involving separation. Our thinking is scarred by worldly interpretations of death, confusing existentialism with death as a state of non-being, which is false teaching. When Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, they suffered a spiritual death. They remained alive physically in their bodies as later they were driven out of the Garden. They remained alive in their souls, as they recognized they were naked and hid. The died a spiritual death because of their thinking independent of God’s Plan resulting in sin or their missing the mark and violating His command, thereby becoming both unrighteous and unjust for denying God fellowship with Him.
Christ on the Cross remained obedient to God’s Plan. While there, the personal sins of all mankind, past, present, and future were imputed to Christ on the Cross and judged. At that moment, God the Father being perfectly just and perfectly righteous had fulfilled the requirements of justice in answering the issue of sin upon the human race. That judgment had been fulfilled.
Forgiveness had not yet occurred. Forgiveness is preceded and separate from the Judgment. Now that Christ Jesus has redeemed all mankind from the slave market of sin, we no longer must be victims of sin. Rather, by facing God, confessing our missing His mark to Him, He is now free to righteously and justly forgive us our sin by His grace. We know He forgives us because Jesus Christ was also forgiven after being condemned for our sin because of His faith (Romans 3:22-24).
Sheol (Hebrew) also known as Hades (Greek) has 4 known compartments in Scripture. There is Abraham’s Bosom, also known as Paradise. This is where all pre-resurrection saints went after the first death. Until the first sacrifice had been made by Christ on the Cross, they were not holy to be in the presence of God or His abode, but He remained faithful to His saints.
A second compartment in Hades was known as the Torments. This is where all unbelievers were destined after their first death prior to the Great White Throne Judgment.
A third Compartment is Tartarus, or a place of darkness reserved from the chained up demons. A fourth compartment is also known as the Abyss, reserved for some of the most heinous criminal demons, from which some will ascend during the Tribulation.
On the Cross, Christ first dies spiritually. This is recorded in the Gospels when Christ calls out, “Father, why have thou forsaken me?” This was a spiritual death from the Father, an identical perfect sacrifice for the sin in the Garden by Adam. Next he dies spiritually from his body when he gives up the ghost to the Father (Spirit and soul now separated). Next he dies physically, as is manifest when the Roman guard pierces his side loosing blood and water, indicating the denser fluids had already began settling in the abdomen after his blood ceased to circulate in his body.
Physically, his body is taken down and taken to the tomb where it is placed under heavy guard for 3 days to make sure it doesn’t leave nor removed by others.
His spirit had ascended to Heaven when He gave up the ghost to the Father.
His soul descended after the Judgment to Hades, the abode of all the dead at that time.
During those 3 days, in Hades, He witnessed to all where He chose, for He holds the keys of Hades. God the Father found His faith to be righteous, the penalty for sin had been paid, and He was free to give life by His grace. God the Father returned the human spirit to the body, while God the Holy Spirit returned the soul to the body, and the body was resurrected thereby glorifying the Son, the first fruits of the new life.
Now that He had redeemed mankind from all sin, and had provided the perfect sacrifice, the souls of saints now are able to enter and be face to face with Christ after the first death. Later they will receive their resurrected bodies at the end of the Church Age.
In a nutshell, He is risen!
The translation is phrased “Truly I say, or Truly, Truly I say to emphasize the veracity of the following statement. Today is not implied by the word or phrase, but came in the following statement.
Today is a descriptor of the time of the event, not the time the phrase was made.
“amen to you I am saying today with me you will be in paradise.”
It is within the context of the rest of what is said about Christ being dead in the grave that the meaning of this sentence can be understood, namely that Jesus was speaking that day for emphasis and that in some future time the malefactor would be resurrected from his memorial tomb.
Not until Jesus returned to heaven was there any sacrifice for mankind offered. (Heb.9:24)
Here is your error. Jesus went to Hades to deliver up the righteous dead, not the unsaved dead.
Beg your pardon, dear Ruy,but I believe your theology here is a bit incorrect. Those in Paradise needed saving. They were all sinners who were trusting Messiah to save them, as He promised. And that He did.
We do all the sinning, He does all the saving.
Right?
A translation into English, with correct punctuation consistent with the broader context and yielding the correct meaning does not give anyone the authority to change punctuation to give another interpretation that undercuts the entire theology and teleology. Here the interpretive placement of the comma is not arbitrary.
Your simplistic approach lacks support of both immediate and broader context, and is thus incorrect. In fact, on close inspection, that interpretation does not even make sense. It trivializes the significance of the promise to the repentant, believing, confessing malefactor into a casual comment, of the type "This day I say unto thee, it will rain." rather than "I say unto thee, this day it will rain."
You might check DRB, where a colon for the comma, and substituting "this day" for "to day," reinforces the same sense given by the KJV reading, and either is done by those to whom the Koine is a familiar, intimate, second language.
You might further note that the second person pronoun in "to day thou shalt be with me in paradise" is singular in number, thus excluding the unrepentant malefactor, whose destiny is to be waterless Sheol/Hell, not paradise -- in the very same day.
A study of precision in using the science of hermeneutics will improve your interpretation techniques, as well as the direction you are giving others, will it not?
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