Posted on 06/16/2012 5:45:41 PM PDT by Salvation
Wrong.
Luther edited and corrupted your Bible. When he did, he removed 2 Macc 12:45, which says that it's a "holy and pious thought" to pray for the dead.
Jews prayed for their dead then, did so in Jesus' time (he had no problem with it), and do so now. Luther could remove Scripture he didn't like, but he doesn't get to edit facts.
All Christians except Protestants pray for their dead. The Greeks do, the Russians do, the Armenians do, etc. You guys are the odd man out, because you're in thrall to a set of rationalistic errors invented in the 16th Century by rebels who were the antithesis of "conservative" in every respect.
Prayer for the dead implies a state, condition, or event after death in which they can be helped by our prayers. That can't be heaven; nobody in heaven needs our help, rather, we need theirs. It can't be hell, because those in hell are beyond help. It can only be some middle condition of judgement or purgative (there's that word) cleansing.
Paul knew this when he wrote in 1 Cor 3:15 of those whose works were faulty, who could nevertheless be saved, but "only as through fire". Look it up. It's in your Bible.
BTW, if I say a prayer or two for my dead father on Father's Day, exactly how does that keep me "enslaved to ... religion"?
Did they invent the concept, or just the name?
See the post immediately below yours. If purgatory was invented hundreds of years after Jesus, why did Jews pray for their dead hundreds of years before Jesus?
There is no purgatory to have criteria for...
So that's how you get out of purgatory??? You meet Jesus???
Is this what they teach you in their homolies???
Man o Man...Pick up a bible and get a Christian education (from it)...
The place is called Abraham's Bosom...It had locked gates and only Jesus has the key...
Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom to preach to those folks...They accepted Jesus as their Savior and he unlocked the gate and they all went to heaven...
Abraham's Bosom is still there but the gate is flung wide open...It's empty...People no longer go there...
That gate is wide open...THAT is the gate that will not prevail against the church...Your so-called purgatory will not prevail against the church...It doesn't even exist for anyone any more...It is non operational...
Pick up a bible and learn stuff...
No, there isn't...If you leave this world without being in the arms of Jesus, you have no other chances...
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Sounds like Heaven to me, and of course it is...
I don't have a Luther bible...
But c'mon...There's so many errors in your added books to the bible that there is no way they were inpired by God..
Your tagline says it all.
It’s not referring to hell, it’s referring to a prison, the same word is used to refer to the bottomless pit where Satan is thrown in Rev. 20:7 -
“7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,”
Then, after his “little season”, we see him cast into hell in verse 10:
“10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
So, yes, Jesus did go to a third place that is neither heaven nor hell, he went to the prison, or bottomless pit, that is reserved for disobedient angels.
To be fair to the Catholics, they don’t believe that the unsaved go to their “purgatory”, they believe you do have to be saved on earth to go there.
I will pray for you.
Thanks, I’ll do likewise.
Having had a near death experience where spirits told me “You’ve done enough, you can come home” I will say, they did say “home.” I was given the choice and I stayed here, although some days I wish I hadn’t.
“Only saved people, destined for heaven, even get to purgatory. “
I do know that this is part of RC theology. There in purgatory you suffer for you sins, for a long period of time, and you get out I think when you have suffered enough, or have the intercessions of other saints made efficacious enough that you get out.
I do reject this notion, for reasons outlined above as well as others, like, Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient to cover my sins, as heinous as they are. I can’t add to the atonement.
Either way it is still a third state that is nietehr heaven nor hell, and if this exists why can’t purgatory?
Because it is unbiblical...You, yourself tried to tell us that purgatory is what the Bible refers to as Abraham's Bosom...
However, again, a little bible search will show you that Abraham's Bosom is empty...The gates are wide open and if anyone did go there, they are free to leave...
Right, and you are the expert on Biblical. You all have claimed heaven or hell with out regard for what the Bbile actually says.
It's in there...There's nothing expert about it...It's all basic stuff...
Trust your own eyes and ask God to confirm what you see...
2) There is sin that does not kill the soul.
3) Jesus went to the souls in Prison. we know that his was neither heaven nor Hell. Clearly a third state. You want to call it the bosom of Abraham, great knock yourself out. What ever you call it, it was clearly a third state.
4) We know that Moses and Elijah both appeared and were visible to the Apostles on the mount of Transfiguration.
5) From the Story of Lazarus (The beggar) and the rich man, we know that there is a gulf that no human can cross.
6) we also know from the Book of Maccabees that the Jews prayed and made offerings for the dead. Now I know that you don't believe that this is an inspired work, but from a historical perspective it does show the Jewish religious practice. Those in Heaven don't need the prayers, they are not efficacious for those in Hell. Clearly they are offered for those in the third state.
You're not going to run anything for me...
Nothing unclean can enter heaven...And that's why Jesus died...To make us clean...We Christians not only can enter heaven, but we are already spiritually seated in heaven...
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
3) Jesus went to the souls in Prison. we know that his was neither heaven nor Hell. Clearly a third state. You want to call it the bosom of Abraham, great knock yourself out.
Are you speaking to me, or God...He's the one who coined the phrase...
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
I don't know about your 3rd state...Heaven, Hell and Abraham's Bosom are not states...They are places...
And yes, there is a 3rd place...But the gates are unlocked and wide open...There's no one there and no one is going there in the near future and no one has been there since Jesus cleared it out...
Those in Heaven don't need the prayers, they are not efficacious for those in Hell. Clearly they are offered for those in the third state.
There is no one in the 3rd state...Jesus took all to heaven...Your 3rd state is a ghost town, with no ghosts...
People went to this so-called 3rd state because they couldn't go to heaven since Jesus had not descended and then ascended to Heaven...
NOW, everyone who is saved goes directly to Heaven...
Stop with these man-made fantasies and read what God really has to say about it...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.