Posted on 06/16/2012 5:45:41 PM PDT by Salvation
I once heard a very wise woman answer the "I don't want to go to Heaven if my dog isn't there" statement with this brilliant comment: "If that's what it takes to make you happy in Heaven, your dog will be there." The woman who'd originally made the statement had to stop and really ponder that. I think she realized what will really bring joy in Heaven.
Let's look at a couple of points taken directly from the Bible:
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
We know several things:
1) They were not in heaven since there would have been no need for Jesus to go to them.
2) They were not in Hell since once you are in hell there is no getting out.
3)We know that they had committed some sins, but they were not serious to be sent to hell for them.
Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
This tells us you must be clean (Free of sin) to enter heaven. After they met Jesus they were able to enter heaven. That pretty much fits the criteria for purgatory.
Several years ago I had to have a fairly minor surgical procedure. I went to confession before hand and told my priest that if anything should happen that he was not to say that I was in a better place. I told him instead I wanted him to say that if I was lucky I made it to purgatory. He told me he would keep that in mind.
My mother passed in 1985
My father passed in 1995
I don’t care who says what or how they say it or what they are thinking... that simple little prayer on the cards gives comfort to lots of people who are grieving. It’s a NICE thing. However, I pray for the souls of my parents every single day. I will pray for them as long as I have breath left in my own body. So, some simple, little comforting prayer that helps people along isn’t hurting anything and for Heaven’s sakes... to go into such detail over such a pretty sentiment is simply amazing to me. Keep praying for ALL the souls. THAT is what is important. To disect such a comforting poem to the degree this was disected is outrageously ridiculous.
Sounds like he basically said “no promises”, since he couldn’t be sure he’d have the guts to say that in the face of the mourning family.
You are probably correct but we did have a laugh over it afterward. Sadly I moved 500 miles away and really miss talking to him on a regular basis.
The verses from Peter refer to the spirits of the “Sons of God” who were imprisoned in the bottomless pit for their disobedience, in the days of Noah. That’s the only sensible reason for that reference to be in there. Otherwise, you must conclude that Jesus only preached to people who had died long ago, and just skipped over the dead in all those intervening centuries.
The verse from Revelation also is not supportive of purgatory, since we know from Rev. 13:8 that the names were written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world. Therefore, you can’t write your name in now by “purging” yourself.
Clearly there is a third state that is niether heaven nor hell. Do you see that?
I appreciate the Bible verses, as I do believe they are the very word of God; however, none of them convince me of an existence of purgatory.
I do believe the judgement day is a particular day coming, and then we are resurrected, and our bodies are reunited with our souls, and some go down to hell, and others to heaven.
However, in the interim, we read for example of the Rich Man and Lazarus. The Rich Man is in hell. And we go to the thief on the cross, who is told by Jesus, “Today you shall be with me in Paradise.”
So we see that dead men are in one place or the other.
As for Onesiphorus, I do not know that he was dead when Paul wrote 1st Timothy.
Where exactly did Jesus mention purgatory?
“How about the quote from Jesus: “Until you have paid the last penny.”
He wasn’t talking about hell.”
Here is the verse you are meaning? (Luke 12):
“58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.”
Again I confess it as the word of God, but I don’t believe it is teaching us that purgatory exists. It just doesn’t seem to be the plain meaning of the text to me.
Here is what it says on Gene Krupa’s prayer card. [Yes, THAT Gene Krupa.]
In Loving Memory of
Gene B. Krupa
Born January 15, 1909
At Rest, October 16, 1973
Services Saturday Oct. 20, 1973
Immaculate Conception Church
Mass at 9:30 A.M.
Internment Holy Cross Cemetary
Section Immaculate-Lot 22
LET US PRAY:
O GENTLEST Heart of Jesus, ever present in the Blessed Sacrament, ever consumed with burning love for the poor captive souls in Purgatory have mercy on the soul of Thy departed servant. Be not severe in Thy judgment but let some drops of Thy Precious Blood fall upon the devouring flames, and do Thou O merciful Savior send Thy angels to conduct Thy departed servant to a place of refreshment, light and peace. Amen.
May the souls of all the faithful departed through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.
President Kennedy’s prayer card:
‘We have loved him during life, let us not abandon him, until we have conducted him by our prayers into the house of the Lord.’—St. Ambrose
My Jesus have mercy on the Soul of
JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY
PRAYER
Incline Thine ear, O Lord unto our prayers, wherein we humbly pray Thee to show Thy mercy upon the soul of Thy servant JOHN, whom Thou hast commanded to pass out of this world, that Thou wouldst place him in the region of peace and light, and bid him be a partaker with Thy Saints, Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
[Indulgence 500 days-Raccotta 600]
You asked for it! Please read these links. They have that information.
What the Church means by Purgatory
Radio Replies Second Volume - Purgatory
Purgatory Exists. And It Burns
The Month of November: Thoughts on the "Last Things"
To Trace All Souls Day (Protestants vs Catholics)
Radio Replies First Volume - Purgatory
The Doctrine of Purgatory [Ecumenical]
The Heroic Act [Catholic-Orthodox Caucus] (Offering everything for the Souls in Purgatory)
MONTLIGEON MIRACLE: HOW PRIEST TURNED INTO 'TRAVELING SALESMAN' OF PURGATORY
IN BRUSH WITH DEATH, PRIEST SHOWN HELL, PURGATORY, DEGREES OF SUFFERING
Praying for the Dead [All Souls Day] (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Purgatory: Service Shop for Heaven [Ecumernical]
Beginning Catholic: Catholic Purgatory: What Does It Mean? [Ecumenical]
OF GUARDIAN ANGELS AND THE ROLE THEY PLAY NOT JUST ON EARTH BUT IN PURGATORY [Catholic Caucus]
IN ANNALS OF SAINTS IS CONVERT'S STRIKING DEDICATION TO THOSE SOULS IN PURGATORY [Catholic Caucus]
Explaining Purgatory from a New Testament Perspective [Ecumenical]
PURIFYING THE SOUL ON EARTH IS WORTH 100X WHAT IT TAKES AFTER [Catholic Caucus] What Happens After Death?
Purgatory
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 12: Purgatory
The Doctrine of Purgatory
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Required for entrance to Purgatory? Personal question for Cathloic Freepers.
(Protestant) Minister Who Had Near-Death Episode Believes In Purgatory
Straight Answers: What Is Purgatory Like?
Do Catholics Believe in Purgatory?
Purgatory, Indulgences, and the Work of Jesus Christ (Discussion)
Prayer to Release the Souls of Purgatory
The Forgotten Souls in Purgatory
Praying for the dead [Purgatory]
The “Paradise” that Christ spoke of was a waiting place. Where do you think all the good people of the Old Testament were until Jesus opened heaven?
You do believe that Jesus was the first one into heaven, don’t you?
Yes, but it’s not a place where it is possible for men to go. The spirits in prison are the in the place referred to in Jude 1:6 -
“6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
and Rev 9:1-3 -
“9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.”
and again in Rev 20:1-3 -
“20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”
All four references paint the same picture, of a place where spirits (angels) are imprisoned for their disobedience to God, awaiting their judgement. That’s the interesting thing about the original verse that you posted, it shows that the mercy of Jesus was so great, He even gave the disobedient angels a chance to repent and be reconciled!
I didn’t ask what the Church, or priests had to say on the issue. I asked where exactly Jesus mentioned the word “purgatory”.
You can either point to Chapter and Verse where Jesus talked about it, or you can not.
Which one is it?
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