Posted on 08/11/2012 10:06:41 AM PDT by Colofornian
...Romney keeps his focus simple: fix the economy. But others are fixated on something else: his faith.
SNIP
Some call it a cult...
Yet Mormons call themselves Christians, which raises eyebrows, especially within evangelical circles.
Shawn McCraney is a former Mormon who now hosts a show called, 'Heart of the Matter," where he witnesses to Mormons in Salt Lake City.
"...I didn't know the Lord and that led me to an internal angst."
"What happened was I came to realize that there was nothing I could do to get myself right before God -- where with Mormonism...it's you have to do it," he explained. "He gives you the opportunity, but it's up to you to perform, and I couldn't perform."
...any controversy over a Mormon president may...center on...whether Romney would put loyalty to the Mormon Church ahead of anything else.
Former Mormon and author Michael Moody has written the book, Mitt, Set Our People Free...
"When I was a little boy, the Mormon prophet was a more important man than the president of the United States," Moody told CBN News.
"Mitt Romney has knelt in the Mormon temples," he noted. "He has taken an oath of consecration. He has taken an oath of sacrifice. He has said that he will sacrifice everything that he is, and give all of his talents, and everything that he has and is to the Mormon Church."
...Moody said a Romney victory would be a big deal for the Mormon Church.
"If Mitt Romney gets in the White House, it's going to be a sign to all of the Mormon people that they're on the right path, that this is the truth, and it's going to help perpetuate their missionary program. It's going to put the Mormon Church in a more powerful position..."
(Excerpt) Read more at cbn.com ...
Not to worry - I have no intention of becoming a Mormon.
I rely on God’s Word for doctrine, not John Calvin, Chairman Mao, or Stalin.
And why did this message come to me?
So what? Getting some brownie points, Brellium?
The Mormon God does not seem as bad as the moongod. The moongod is AKA Baal or Lucifer or something like that. BO is the moondgod’s bitch, so which god is leading the US now?
bigotry, noun, bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
So, I guess that means that anyone who holds an opinion in opposition to my own, and I find that opinion intolerable, then that person is a "bigot."
Let’s just keep the Muslim then, I guess.
Thanks for re-posting a link from Jims post.
Some of the Mormon shills have not gotten the word yet. They don’t like free speech much as is evidenced in this thread.
Some can get quite nasty with personal attacks. I guess if they think they are a god, that gives therm the right to tell others what they can and can’t post and become downright nasty to other FReepers.
Well, let’s see how the fundraiser goes when it relies on the underwear fetish crowd.
Wow, a preacher doesn't agree with you and NICELY tells you why and what's your response? You don't even KNOW this person and you attempt to slur them because they don't agree with you??Just wow! What a wonderful Christian response (choking with disbelief)
The ones that you should review.
The ones that say you can hate on Morons all you want?
I assume you mean Mormons, not Morons. Our disagreement is with MormonISM, not with MormonS. Believing as I do, if I really hated Mormons, I would not say a word and allow them to linger in their deception on their way to eternal damnation. When I was searching for truth, the Lord saved me from Mormonism and I'd like to be used by Him as a tool to do the same for those who are deceived by Mormonism.
You have already stated that you aren't interested in the discussions on this forum, so why are you here?
Voting for a Mormon does not make me an idolator or disobedient to God. Tell me straight out that it does. I dare you.
When you get to heaven, and I believe you will, imagine the thousands of little children looking at you - the ones the HHS had killed with your tax dollars. I’m sure they’ll forgive you and even ask you to play with them.
And I can imagine you saying to them, “I was pure. God wouldn’t have wanted it any other way. I’m sure I’ll be very pleasing to Him. Where is He, by the way? I’d like Him to congratulate me.”
Right?
I freely admit that I am a sinful wretch, and my only hope is in the blood of Jesus which covers my sins, and that God “will look on Him and pardon me.” There is no health in me. We live in a fallen world. This is a time for hard and real choices.
The main guideline is to discuss the issues all you want, but not make it personal.
Don’t get mad at me over apostolic teaching. John teaches us to not even bid godspeed to those false teachers who bring a false Christ. We each stand or fall before our own master. You do what you want. I for one would rather do as Abraham did, putting his only son on the line because God asked him to. In the end, God rewards obedience. He’s the one running this show. Not Obama. Half the purpose of life is just to realize that truth. The other half is to act on it, always. Physical survival is not the highest good. Fellowship with God is what we should all put first, above everything. You call it purity. I don’t think of it that way. I call it love. I can’t look to an idolater to rescue this nation, not because I’m trying to be somebody special, but because I believe in God. He saved me from grotesque sin and eternal emptiness, by a miracle of grace. You have no idea how much I love him. I won’t betray him at the last minute by turning to his enemies for help. He is perfectly able to save us all from Obama. But will we trust him when it is hard, when loss of everything seems certain if we do not put our trust in the arm of human power? That is the great test each of us must face. I pray God gives me grace in the hour of trial. I pray he does the same for you.
Peace,
SR
SR,
I would never ever attend a Mormon church, or give the church a dime.
I would, however, vote for one.
Paul appealed to the Roman authorities to give him protection from the Jews. Government is an institution created by God.
Do you even understand what I’m saying?
Mr. Obama’s policies are persecuting the church that Jesus instituted. He is all for killing of babies, up to the third term and after they are born, and he wants us to pay for it.
How would Jesus want us to vote for this man, and not for his opponent?
You really make me wonder - do you attend an Evangelical church? What you believe does not sound like the Gospel. Obedience to God even if it results in death for myself, sure, but God wants that to be the last straw. I will reiterate again - Paul proved this when he appealed to the horrible, godless Roman government. I would vote for a Mormon if he were more pro-life than the other guy. I am sure early Christians would have voted against Nero, too. Love and Grace triumph over your strange idea of purity. I'm not voting for a pastor - I'm voting for a civil servant.
I'm not looking to Romney to rescue the nation. I totally trust that God could use Mr. Romney to give more freedom to Christians to keep spreading the gospel. You don't think God has the power do use any tool at His disposal? Abstaining from voting for him is giving your vote to Obama. That is better?
Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. And behold, there was a woman who had had wa disabling spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not fully straighten herself. When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said to her, "Woman, you are freed from your disability." And he laid his hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and she glorified God. But the ruler of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, said to the people, "There are six days in which work ought to be done. Come on those days and be healed, and not on the Sabbath day." Then the Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the manger and lead it away to water it? 16 And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?" 17 As he said these things, fall his adversaries were put to shame, and gall the people rejoiced at all the glorious things that were done by him.
I stand by that as sound Christian doctrine:
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
If Jesus was willing to die for his love for us, why should we not be willing to die for our love for him?
Php 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Let this mind be in you. What mind? The willingness to be a servant to the will of God, even if, as a result of that service, we lose our earthly trinkets, or even our life.
But for you this is not about love. You didn’t even respond to that. Instead you went to the Pharisee’s false, loveless devotion to the law. In doing so you misrepresent me.
To put it simply, my devotion is not to the law, but to Christ. He saved me. I was lost. He died for me. He washed me. He set my feet upon the solid rock. I trust him. I even trust him with America.
Whereas, from my perspective, you are arguing for me to disobey him, because you imagine something good will come of it. How is that “evangelical?” Aren’t evangelicals taught to have faith in God under all circumstances? Doesn’t your Bible and mine say, “whatsoever is not of faith is sin?” If I act on fear, that is not acting on faith. If God has told me “No,” how can I excuse myself for insisting on “Yes?” Will God accept my excuse of fear? Of allegiance to a transitory earthly political system as a higher priority than faithfulness to the eternal kingdom of God? I don’t think he will.
What did Jesus say about fear?
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. [29] Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. [30] But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. [31] Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. [32] Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. [33] But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
If I deny Christ by supporting for public office a man who blasphemes God by aspiring to be God (just like your Nero), a man who is a leader in a religion that openly seeks to destroy faith in the true Christ, and I do so out of fear, out of faithlessness, out of putting mere survival before obedience to God, what might I expect on that day of his return in power and glory? The joy of acceptance before God, or the despair of learning that I was a fraud?
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Peace,
SR
You can’t find me a verse, though, that talks about how Jesus came to die for sinners so that Christians would have marching orders to take over governments. He wasn’t about that at all.
Your conscience will not allow you to vote for Mitt. My conscience freely will, and I am not counting it as a sin against God, because you cannot find me one scripture that says it’s a sin. God instituted a civil government when Saul became king, and he said it was going to be an evil thing.
And you cannot answer me this: Why didn’t Paul, in Acts 25, just lay down his life then and there? Why did he appeal to Caesar?
You see, there are some times when God calls us to physical survival, and other times not.
I am hiring a worker, our President. I would hire a Mormon, too. I would hire an atheist, and I would hire a Sikh. I am not voting for a God to rule over us - that would be seeing the office of the President as an idolatrous thing.
I am hiring a paltry politician.
First, let us deal with the straw man you present:
You can’t find me a verse, though, that talks about how Jesus came to die for sinners so that Christians would have marching orders to take over governments. He wasn’t about that at all.
I confess I am befuddled by this. Now I am easy to befuddle, so I am rather sure this isn’t your fault. But I do not recall ever suggesting Jesus gave "marching orders to take over governments." What I did suggest was that he and his apostles gave orders for Christian behavior which preclude giving any support whatsoever to those who actively promote antichrist doctrine:
2John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: [11] For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Now bidding Godspeed is an English approximation of a more general idea in the Greek of greeting someone, of wishing them happiness and success. John here is saying don't do that, don't even let them in your home. This was quite against the grain for John's day, because the cultural rule was if a guest came, you took him in, offered him food, drink, rest, etc. John is saying the spiritual stakes are too high here. Don't give them anything, not even the very modest offer of a pleasant greeting, for to whatever extent you support and encourage them, you entangle yourself in their evil deeds.
Furthermore, this warning comes in the context of the risk of spiritual loss, which John sets up just a few verses earlier:
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
Now I realize that a creative mind unwilling to face the harsh glare of such warnings can find a way to dismiss the clear teaching of this passage. I am less creative, and have not found a reasonable way to excuse myself from the limitations imposed here. In our system of government, if I vote for someone, I am willingly giving them power over me, I am doing far more than just giving them the support of a common street greeting, or letting them into my house; I am letting them permanently into my life, I am giving them the trust to run my country. I cannot reconcile this with the prohibition of the foregoing verse. Why would I give a known teacher of antichrist doctrine such enormous power, if my first love is the love of Christ, and not the love of my own life?
So no, you cannot adduce any evidence that this is some sort of closet effort at theocracy. All I have told you so far points to the fact that sometimes personal Christian faith runs totally contrary to the ways of the world, and in every such conflict the child of God must choose, no matter how unpopular, to take the narrow way that leads to eternal life, not the broad path that leads to eternal destruction.
I do not have illusions that the kingdom of God can be imposed on the world before the return of Christ, but neither do I stop being a Christian when I enter the voting booth. My obligation runs first to God, then my family and my country. This is not theocracy; this is mere Christianity. Your straw man has flamed out.
As for Saul, yes God appointed him as king, but only after warning the people of Israel it was a bad idea, a lack of faith in God, that would have, as you said, evil consequences. Nevertheless, they insisted, and it was as bad as God said it would be. That’s hardly a resounding recommendation for supporting a wicked political leader. Seems more like an argument against it. Trust in God, and things will go well; trust in man, and look out for big trouble. And this helps you how?
As for Paul’s appeal to Caesar, I don’t see the relevance. Paul is using the Roman legal system to promote the gospel in the very heart of Rome. I would do the same. But Caesar was no elected official. Per Romans 13, God had already granted him his power by means other than the people’s consent. I am aware of no model from First Century politics that compares to our present constitutional system.
I suppose we could speculate on whether Paul would have voted for Herod versus Caligula, given the choice, but such speculation would be meaningless nonsense. Paul didn’t have that opportunity. Paul had been told by God he would bring the Gospel to Rome, and seeing his opportunity, he executes a legal strategy very likely to bring that about, knowing it would also result in imprisonment and ultimately death. Not exactly focused on “physical survival.” The Gospel was always his first priority. Again, I do not see how this supports your position.
As for hiring a Mormon, if I am hiring for President, leader of the free world, one of the most important and dangerous jobs there is, with such a dramatic potential to affect the future well-being of my family and my countrymen, I will not be hiring someone I could not invite into my house due to his antichrist doctrine, someone who saw himself as a god in embryo. I would rather being hiring someone who when he prayed for help was not praying to an exalted Adam, part of the eternal progression of deities, but rather to the one true God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Paul didn’t have that option under Caesar. I do, and by God’s grace I intend to use it in a manner consistent with Christian faith.
Well, that’s all for now. If you wish to keep going, I’m all for it. But if not, I will understand. It’s up to you.
Peace,
SR
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