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To: Albion Wilde
Two Sacraments: Communion and Baptism. Sometimes Confession's added as a third. At least in (Scripture-believing) Lutheran churches this is the case. The ELCA’s probably added abortion and buggery by now.

But a Sacrament is when the Word is joined to a material object for the explicit purpose of delivering God's grace and forgiveness to the recipients. I don't see how marriage is a Sacrament in that case, because it doesn't deliver forgiveness of sins. Nor is ordination, because it doesn't deliver forgiveness of sins.

21 posted on 08/16/2012 8:56:49 AM PDT by Luircin (Don't like Romney? Blame the conservative circular firing squad.)
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To: Luircin
I don't see how marriage is a Sacrament... because it doesn't deliver forgiveness of sins.

No truer words were ever spoken. /sarc

28 posted on 08/16/2012 10:09:52 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. -- George Bernard Shaw)
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To: Luircin; Albion Wilde; P-Marlowe; wagglebee

As a protestant pastor, I’m probably a maverick, but I do believe that there is something unique that transpires at the spiritual level in both marriage and ordination.

So far as “forgiveness”, both do touch on the subject. Marriage in that it is a life-style that Paul says is a remedy for the burning sexual nature that descends so easily to sin.

Ordination because the ordained minister of God truly does become a set apart officiant of God, reminding of sin, righteousness and forgiveness. Paul says, “do not forsake that gift that was given you by the laying on of hands (ordination).”

The Bible specifically says that marriage “God made them male and female AND a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they shall become one flesh.” That is no small indication of God’s involvement.

I do not fault my Catholic brethren at all for considering marriage and ordination sacraments.

Besides, time has proven them right on their insistence that real marriage is only within the context of Christianity and the Church.


37 posted on 08/16/2012 11:38:11 AM PDT by xzins (Vote Goode Not Evil: The lesser of 2 evils is still evil!)
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To: Luircin; Albion Wilde

Marriage in the Catholic or Orthodox Church is a sacrament because the spouses form Church Domestic and become vehicle of grace for each other and their children, leading each other to salvation in the Church.

In a Protestant setting I don’t know what is. Logically, Baptism and Marriage should be the only two Protestant sacraments since they do not absolutely require a priest, and indeed most Protestant baptisms are valid, and so are Protestant marriages unless a Catholic is involved.


45 posted on 08/16/2012 5:23:48 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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