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On the Queenship of Mary
Zenit News Agency ^ | August 22, 2012 | Benedict XVI

Posted on 08/23/2012 10:05:31 AM PDT by ELS

On the Queenship of Mary

"She is queen precisely by loving us"

CASTEL GANDOLFO, AUG. 22, 2012 (Zenit.org).- Here is a translation of the Italian-language catechesis Benedict XVI gave today during the general audience held at Castel Gandolfo. The Holy Father focused his meditation on today's liturgical memorial of the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

* * *

Dear brothers and sisters,

Today marks the liturgical memorial of the Blessed Virgin Mary, invoked under the title: "Queen." It is a feast of recent institution, even though it is ancient in its origin and devotion: It was established by the Venerable Pius XII in 1954, at the conclusion of the Marian Year; its date was set at May 31 (cf. Lett. Enc. Ad caeli Reginam, 11 Octobris 1954: AAS 46 [1954], 625-640). On this occasion, the Pope stated that Mary is Queen above every other creature on account of the elevation of her soul and the excellence of the gifts she received. She never ceases to bestow all the treasures of her love and care on humanity (cf. Speech in honor of Queen Mary, 1 November 1954). Now, following the post-conciliar reform of the liturgical calendar, it has been placed eight days after the Solemnity of the Assumption, in order to emphasize the close bond between Mary's queenship and her glorification in body and soul next to her Son. In the Second Vatican Council's Constitution on the Church, we read: "Mary was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen of the universe, that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son" (Lumen Gentium, 59).

This is the root of today's feast: Mary is Queen because of her unique association to her Son, both during her earthly journey as well as in heavenly glory. The great saint of Syria, Ephrem of Syria, said regarding the queenship of Mary that it derives from her maternity: She is Mother of the Lord, of the King of kings (cf. Is 9:1-6), and she points to Jesus as our life, salvation and our hope. The Servant of God Paul VI recalled in his apostolic exhortation Marialis Cultus: "In the Virgin Mary everything is relative to Christ and dependent upon Him. It was with a view to Christ that God the Father from all eternity chose her to be the all-holy Mother and adorned her with gifts of the Spirit granted to no one else" (n. 25).

But now we may ask ourselves: What does it mean that Mary is Queen? Is it merely a title along with others, the crown, an ornament like others? What does it mean? What is this queenship? As already noted, it is a consequence of her being united with her Son, of her being in heaven, i.e. in communion with God. She participates in God's responsibilities over the world and in God's love for the world. There is the commonly held idea that a king or queen should be person with power and riches. But this is not the kind of royalty proper to Jesus and Mary. Let us think of the Lord: The Lordship and Kingship of Christ is interwoven with humility, service and love: it is, above all else, to serve, to assist, to love. Let us recall that Jesus was proclaimed king on the Cross, with this inscription written by Pilate: "King of the Jews" (cf. Mark 15:26). In that moment on the Cross it is revealed that He is king. And how is He king? By suffering with us, for us, by loving us to the end; it is in this way that He governs and creates truth, love and justice. Or let us also think of another moment: at the Last Supper, He bends down to wash the feet of His disciples. Therefore, the kingship of Jesus has nothing to do with that which belongs to the powerful of the earth. He is a king who serves His servants; He showed this throughout His life. And the same is true for Mary. She is queen in God's service to humanity. She is the queen of love, who lives out her gift of self to God in order to enter into His plan of salvation for man. To the angel she responds: Behold the handmaid of the Lord (cf. Luke 1:38), and in the Magnificat she sings: God has looked upon the lowliness of His handmaid (cf. Luke 1:48). She helps us. She is queen precisely by loving us, by helping us in every one of our needs; she is our sister, a humble handmaid.

Thus we have arrived at the point: How does Mary exercise this queenship of service and love? By watching over us, her children: the children who turn to her in prayer, to thank her and to ask her maternal protection and her heavenly help, perhaps after having lost their way, or weighed down by suffering and anguish on account of the sad and troubled events of life. In times of serenity or in the darkness of life we turn to Mary, entrusting ourselves to her continual intercession, so that from her Son we may obtain every grace and mercy necessary for our pilgrimage along the paths of the world. To Him who rules the world and holds the destinies of the universe in His hands we turn with confidence, through the Virgin Mary. For centuries she has been invoked as the Queen of heaven; eight times, after the prayer of the holy Rosary, she is implored in the Litany of Loreto as Queen of the Angels, Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, Confessors, Virgins, of all Saints and of Families. The rhythm of this ancient invocation, and daily prayers such as the Salve Regina, help us to understand that the Holy Virgin, as our Mother next to her Son Jesus in the glory of Heaven, is always with us, in the daily unfolding of our lives.

The title of Queen is therefore a title of trust, of joy and of love. And we know that what she holds in her hands for the fate of the world is good; she loves us, and she helps us in our difficulties.

Dear friends, devotion to Our Lady is an important element in our spiritual lives. In our prayer, let us not neglect to turn trustfully to her. Mary will not neglect to intercede for us next to her Son. In looking to her, let us imitate her faith, her complete availability to God's plan of love, her generous welcoming of Jesus. Let us learn to live by Mary. Mary is the Queen of heaven who is close to God, but she is also the Mother who is close to each one of us, who loves us and who listens to our voice. Thank you for your attention.

[Translation by Diane Montagna]

[The Holy Father then addressed the people in various languages. In English, he said:]

I welcome all the English-speaking pilgrims present at today’s audience, especially the groups from the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, Japan and the United States of America. I also greet the young altar servers from Malta and their families. Today the Church celebrates the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary. May the prayers of Our Lady guide us along our pilgrimage of faith, that we may share in her Son’s victory and reign with Him in His eternal Kingdom. Upon all of you I invoke the Lord’s abundant blessings!


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Prayer; Theology
KEYWORDS: generalaudience; paulvihall; popebenedictxvi; queenshipofmary

Pope Benedict XVI waves as he arrives to lead a weekly audience from his summer residence of Castelgandolfo, south of Rome August 22, 2012. (Reuters Pictures)

Pope Benedict XVI waves at the end of his weekly audience from his summer residence of Castelgandolfo, south of Rome August 22, 2012. (Reuters Pictures)
1 posted on 08/23/2012 10:05:41 AM PDT by ELS
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To: clockwise; bornacatholic; Miss Marple; bboop; PandaRosaMishima; Carolina; MillerCreek; ...
Weekly audience ping!

Please let me know if you want to be on or off this ping list.

2 posted on 08/23/2012 10:06:37 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: ELS

These kind of discussions ARE STUPID

Mary is queen because she loves us?

This is the kind of religious nonsense that wastes time when you could be out helping the poor or defeating evil (like Obama)

IF you want to believe Mary is “Queen” then enjoy yourself- no amount of discussion here will make it true (or false)


3 posted on 08/23/2012 10:08:32 AM PDT by Mr. K ("The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum [of good]")
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To: Mr. K
What's the harm if it helps a person to be a better human being?

I'm not Catholic, and so am agnostic on the issue. But I know that it helps in focusing millions of minds worldwide toward God and the essential Good. Toward helping the poor or defeating evil. Thus why would one take exception?

I believe that God's principle desire is that we act decently toward one another.

How does this detract?

4 posted on 08/23/2012 11:01:30 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Mr. K
Mary is queen because she loves us?

Did you skip the second paragraph? Right there it says,

"Mary is Queen because of her unique association to her Son, both during her earthly journey as well as in heavenly glory. The great saint of Syria, Ephrem of Syria, said regarding the queenship of Mary that it derives from her maternity: She is Mother of the Lord, of the King of kings (cf. Is 9:1-6), and she points to Jesus as our life, salvation and our hope."

Reading is fundamental.

5 posted on 08/23/2012 11:24:50 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: ELS

Also, Jesus is the Son of David. In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen Mother sits enthroned at the right hand of the King.

ref: 1 Kings 2:19


6 posted on 08/23/2012 12:33:50 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

bingo !!!! if you hadnt posted this , i was going to.....


7 posted on 08/23/2012 12:48:46 PM PDT by raygunfan
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To: ELS

Oh ok... I guess she is ‘queen’ then

now that changes everything, and worth the hors and hours of time wasted discussing it. Yep she’s queen alright.

If she was only lady-in-waiting, or princess, that would be just awful. but now that you have explained it so clearly I can see she is ‘queen’ and now life can go on in ways i never before dreamed possible. It makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE in the world

who has Duke and Earl?


8 posted on 08/23/2012 12:50:13 PM PDT by Mr. K ("The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum [of good]")
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To: Mr. K

For a guy who thinks the discussion is “stupid”, you sure inconvenienced a lot of electrons over it...

The discussion matters because, as the Family of God rejoined through the sacrifice of the New Covenant (Jesus), we should learn about the Heavenly reality. I agree with you that if this were mere conjecture and fairy tale, it is an empty pursuit. If, on the other hand, these are revealed truths that are essential to our understanding God’s plan and purpose... it is far from trivial.

“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.” - C.S. Lewis

In the economy of God, there is only truth. Learning and recognizing His Truth is not only important, it is of greatest importance.


9 posted on 08/23/2012 12:59:38 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: ELS

Thanks ELS.


10 posted on 08/23/2012 3:47:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ELS

Great post!


11 posted on 08/23/2012 7:50:06 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: All; ELS
Exodus 20:12

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

Ephesians 6:2

"Honor your father and mother"--which is the first commandment with a promise--

How would a God man named Jesus honor his mother? Queenship? Sounds Right to me.

If Jesus Christ is sinless like the Bible shows. We have to look at what makes Him sinless. We believe he is sinless because he never broke a commandment. Now what are the commandments. There are at least ten commandments beside six hundred thirteen mosaic laws. We know that God became man in Jesus Christ (1John4 ) according to Biblical evidence. Which this logic fits into a line of reasoning that can not be broken. He came by birth of a human female as told by the archangel Gabriel to Mary which puts her in the equation. If he is God by perfection meaning spotless lamb equals sinless man Than the greatest commandment is as good as the least commandment if he is spotless. Because if one is not held up neither is he the Sinless Savoir.

Also if he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow which was written after his gospel ( his birth and his resurrection) accounts by the Apostles he is unchanged since this time. Divinity in birth by woman equals a mother of his humanity and divinity (1John4)together in the human race. Which is what 1John4 is the test par none of the true Christ as The Apostle John points out. Since he is sinless not to go against any commandment as Savoir and God. He can not ignore or mean to dis honor his mother in the commandment for Mother and Father of a human.

Since he is human he has to obey the commandment of Honor your Father and Mother. He can not ever and I mean ever slip in a deliberate act of dishonor to his parents. All the perfection and purity of God our Savoir falls if we believe otherwise. He being God to live for ever and ever is him being perfect in commandments observing for all eternity. We especially see he is the wounded/ slain lamb in the book of Revelation. Well for him to be wounded means he is still in the "cloth" of humanity. He is just as human as right after the resurrection and his ascension into heaven. Which means special favor on his parents. Whether we like it or not this commandment is for us to honor/ favor your mother.

If he is King his mother is special/ honor/Queen to him or he would be a liar thus not the sinless Savoir. He is not a liar.

The human mother of Jesus can not mean not of God because : Jesus in the flesh/human equals his fleshly Mother is indeed the Mother of God because of 1 John4.

So as my belief it does not bother me to call her Queen.


12 posted on 08/23/2012 8:21:15 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: pgyanke
In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen Mother sits enthroned at the right hand of the King.

Exegetical hallucination.

Solomon spared Adonijah (Solomons older brother) life on the promise of "good behavior" though he did not want to recognize Solomon as the Lords choice for the throne. He then asks Bathsheba to petition the king for Adonijah to take one of David's concubines as his wife. Apparently he thought he could lay claim to the throne by backdooring his way in. Solomon instantly recognizes the plan.

So in reading the context of the passage you cited in 1 Kings 2:19 ... it is absolutely clear (Read the whole chapter) that before Bathsheba approached Solomon on behalf of Adonijah that Bethsheba was NOT, as you say, enthroned at the right hand of the King.

Lets look at the actual text shall we?

1 Kings 2:19
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king arose to meet her, bowed before her, and sat on his throne; then he had a throne set for the king's mother, and she sat on his right.

Solomon saw her coming, acknowledged her, then he sat down, then had a throne brought in for her, obviously one that did not exist before she approached the king. They had their conversation about Adonijah and I will let you read the next couple of verses ... because it mauls your theory. Solomon rejects his mothers request and has Adonijah killed.

After this, Bathsheba is not mentioned in scripture at all ... nothing about her ruling with Solomon, nothing about any successors doing likewise, nothing about David's mother sitting at his right hand, nothing about her or any other woman sitting at the right hand of the Father or the Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope this helps.

13 posted on 08/24/2012 9:50:04 AM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: pgyanke

I am talking nothing of the sort

You are wasting time and effort (and I have seem some so-called ‘christian’ people behave very un-christian-like) arguing over things that are just plain silly.

Does God want that? Is Mary somehow different if I dont think of her as a ‘queen’ but maybe an Empress?


14 posted on 08/24/2012 11:49:47 AM PDT by Mr. K ("The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum [of good]")
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To: dartuser

**I hope this helps.**

Probably not. But, you gave it the ol’ college try.

It’s really simple. What Mary was used to bring forth on this earth died on the cross. Diety doesn’t die, not even for a few hours. And God didn’t leave his soul (Mary didn’t make that part either) in hell. God put that soul back in that body (Mary didn’t do that either), and raised him up from the dead (Mary didn’t do that part either).

How is Jesus Christ God? He’s the fulness of the Godhead bodily. “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself”.

Mary was given a great honor, but she did not make more of God. The vainities of these man-made Mary traditions are endless it seems.


15 posted on 08/25/2012 8:57:28 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: dartuser; Zuriel; Mr. K

Forgive me, I don’t have much time to deal with this between family and work requirements right now. I will simply ask you, is it common practice for a king to set up a throne for his guests to enjoy? Your response seems to suggest that. No king would set up a throne for anyone but whom that throne belongs. No king would bow before anyone but one worthy of such honor.

Our Lord honors His Mother in accord with the dictates of His Heart and obedience to His Father’s Will. When the mother of James and John asked that they be enthroned by Jesus, He didn’t say He would—because kings routinely set up thrones for the asking... He said that position is already ordained. Scripture gives us a hint through Kings as to the identity of the occupant.

Really. This whole argument is a fallacy in itself. What honor do we have but what the Lord grants? What condemnation do we suffer but what has been proscribed? Is it because of our words or deeds that we are elevated or laid low or is it because the Lord has chosen each in his station? Mary’s station is that of the Queen Mother because she was chosen by God to bear the Son of David. We honor her not because she was a faithful human (though she was) but because our Lord honors her as His own mother enthroned at His Right Hand.

Jesus is Lord... then, now and always—in all times. There is no time He is not Lord. There is no time when He is not part of the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity. Mary was chosen in time to enter into that reality as the mother of the Son of the Most High. We have all been chosen as children of the Most High through adoption in the New Covenant and have been restored as the Family of God. It is a great mystery and the greatest love story ever told.

These are not trivial issues the Church brings forward as stumbling blocks. These are revealed truths of the reality of Heaven.


16 posted on 08/27/2012 9:18:09 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke
This is religious gobbledy-gook.

It is all meaningless navel-pondering

Read the bible, follow the 10 commandments (the ONLY actual instructions from God that I know of) and try to be a good person and help others.

Don't worry about whether Mary sits on a thrown or a footstool at the right or left hand of the holy ‘trinity’- does it really matter?

17 posted on 08/28/2012 8:26:13 AM PDT by Mr. K ("The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum [of good]")
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To: Mr. K
Don't worry about whether Mary sits on a thrown or a footstool at the right or left hand of the holy ‘trinity’- does it really matter?

Jesus is Lord - does it really matter? Well, yes, it does. It does because it is the Truth. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come to the Church (at the time, the Apostles) to teach them all things. These are things we have learned and are sharing. Does it matter? Does anything matter if we reject the Spirit's teaching?

Read the bible, follow the 10 commandments (the ONLY actual instructions from God that I know of) and try to be a good person and help others.

You need to read a little deeper. Jesus echoed two more commandments from Deuteronomy (Matt 22). He also called us to fasting, prayer and almsgiving (Matt 6). He even gave us the words we are to pray when we do (Matt 6). He commanded his Apostles to baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matt 28) and teach everyone to obey everything [He] commanded them.

Here you are... the Church--the successors to the Apostles and principal of the Great Commission--was commanded to teach us. Listening and learning is up to you. May God bless you.

18 posted on 08/28/2012 12:01:41 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

But what does ANY OF that have to do with the “queenship” (is that even a word?) of Mary

Maybe she is an Empress, or maybe God has her as a GS-100 (the highest ever) pay grade? Don’t you see how silly a discussion of her “official title” is?


19 posted on 08/28/2012 2:13:07 PM PDT by Mr. K ("The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum [of good]")
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To: Mr. K
But what does ANY OF that have to do with the “queenship” (is that even a word?) of Mary

I'm trying to explain to you that the Church has been given the commission to teach as it is taught by the Holy Spirit. We have had a continuing, unfolding revelation for all of recorded time. The Old Testament spoke of Christ... but we didn't see it until it was revealed in His day. And, like the Jews of His day, people still resist the unfolding revelation today.

It is important simply because it is the Truth and Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We come to know Christ in seeking to know what is real in the Heavenly reality. Mary is part of that Heavenly reality. She is the first to be welcomed home in body and soul and the living embodiment of the promise given us all as the Family of God. We are part of the Royal Family of Heaven (1 Cor 6:3) through the New Covenant sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

I really don't have time to retype all that I have written on FR regarding these subjects over the years... I invite you to my homepage for some links and references and welcome the opportunity to talk more on specifics later.

20 posted on 08/28/2012 2:42:39 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

After a long absence, I’m back to look at FR religion comments. Workload and elderly parents take nearly all of my time.

**Our Lord honors His Mother in accord with the dictates of His Heart and obedience to His Father’s Will.**

Another curious tradition whereby you folks apply emphasis on His “Heart”. Jesus said nothing about his ‘heart’, because.....he would not let anyone think that there was anything in him ‘calling the shots’ other than the Father. He spoke a great deal about the Father dwelling in him, teaching, guiding, empowering him through word and deed to do the “will of the Father which hath sent me”. He also spoke of the heart of man, showing it to be a separate entity from the Spirit of God, largely disobedient, but able to be led by the Spirit.

The Word never refers to Mary as Queen mother. That’s man made tradition. John 2:4 and 19:26 are the only passages where Jesus Christ speaks to her directly; and he addresses her as ‘woman’, knowing in the future people would be doing all they could to elevate her status beyond what the Word had made plain.

The Christ never speaks of assigning a throne to her either. But, she mostly likely will be one of many sitting with him on HIS throne. Rev. 3:21

Mary was given a great honor in giving birth to the Christ-child, but she didn’t make more of God, didn’t make the soul of the Son, or raise him from the dead, or cause him to ascend up to heaven bodily. She did only that which her physical body could do, and was designed to do. Believe whatever ‘traditions’ you want, but I prefer to stick with plain scriptural facts.

Lord bless.


21 posted on 11/07/2012 7:48:33 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel
Jesus was an observant Jew. He did not transgress even the smallest part of the Law. As such He honored His Father AND His Mother as commanded in Deuteronomy. Mary has a special place of honor among Christ's followers as the Mother He honors in perfectly following His Father's commands. We are the Body of Christ and She is the Mother of the Body.

The Word never refers to Mary as Queen mother. That’s man made tradition. John 2:4 and 19:26 are the only passages where Jesus Christ speaks to her directly; and he addresses her as ‘woman’, knowing in the future people would be doing all they could to elevate her status beyond what the Word had made plain.

Never?

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The Christ never speaks of assigning a throne to her either. But, she mostly likely will be one of many sitting with him on HIS throne.

And yet Scripture records that the Davidic King did homage to his mother and set up a throne for her at his right hand (1 Kings 2:19). Our Lord is the Word and the Word was made flesh. What is spoken in His written Word is of Himself.

Mary was given a great honor in giving birth to the Christ-child, but she didn’t make more of God, didn’t make the soul of the Son, or raise him from the dead, or cause him to ascend up to heaven bodily. She did only that which her physical body could do, and was designed to do.

This has always been a great curiosity to me. Has anyone ever done anything that could please God? Has Christ? By your definition, Mary is nothing special because She simply obeyed God. Can anyone aspire to a higher calling or a higher honor? Although Christ IS more... did He DO more? There is not one of us who does anything but by God's Will and Grace. Her selection as Christ's vessel elevates Her just as the gold selected by the refiners was elevated when fashioned into the Ark of the Covenant. We don't make more of Mary than God Himself did... we simply marvel at His Plan.

We do not claim Mary as more than a woman... just first among Christians in doing the Will of God.


22 posted on 11/08/2012 11:05:03 AM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

**We are the Body of Christ and She is the Mother of the Body.**

Don’t you find it odd that nowhere in the epistles (letters to the church) do you find that kind of expression? And, as I said before, in the scriptures the Christ didn’t address her as ‘mother’, but as ‘woman’.

**Never? Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.**

Why did you stop before verse 6???
“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

The ‘woman’ is Israel. “For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth...” Is 54:5,6 (see also Hosea chap 2).

**And yet Scripture records that the Davidic King did homage to his mother and set up a throne for her at his right hand (1 Kings 2:19). Our Lord is the Word and the Word was made flesh. What is spoken in His written Word is of Himself.**

Solomon showed respect to his mother Bath-sheba, when she came to pass along Adonijah’s request, and had a seat brought in for her sit beside his throne. She did not sit on a throne herself. Furthermore, her request in that case was denied, and Adonijah died.

**Her selection as Christ’s vessel elevates Her just as the gold selected by the refiners was elevated when fashioned into the Ark of the Covenant.**

God told Moses he would dwell between the cheribims on TOP of the Ark of the Covenant? I fail to see the Ark as a type of Mary. I see the Ark as a type of Jesus Christ rather easily. Mary was greatly blessed in her role, I just don’t take the matter any further than that. All power is in God. Only he is worthy of worshipful praise.

Lord bless.


23 posted on 11/08/2012 7:58:35 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: pgyanke

**We don’t make more of Mary than God Himself did...**

Nor do I and those like minded.
Luke 11:27,28. And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, “Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it”.

Also Luke 8:21. And he answered and said unto them, “My mother and my brethern are these which hear the word of God, and do it”.

It seems that the Lord made it very clear that the mother of his fleshly body was not to be given special attention, for he knew that such things can lead to idolatry (not unlike the vain madness called ‘Amercan Idol’).


24 posted on 11/09/2012 6:45:25 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel
Don’t you find it odd that nowhere in the epistles (letters to the church) do you find that kind of expression? And, as I said before, in the scriptures the Christ didn’t address her as ‘mother’, but as ‘woman’.

Don't you find it odd to be part of the Body of Christ and not acknowledge your own mother as such? Seriously, this isn't the greatest logical leap in history.

The ‘woman’ is Israel.

Yes. The woman of Revelation is Israel... and Mary. Just as "my Son" in Hosea 11:1 refers to Israel in the particular and Christ in the fulfillment. Scripture is deeper than a 3rd grade reading level. The Old Testament prefigures the mysteries of the New Testament and the New Testament reveals what was hidden in the Old Testament. The virgin which "will be with child" of Isaiah 7:14 found a particular fulfillment in its day but its fullest fulfillment in Mary as noted by the Evangelist (Matt 1:23).

You seem to forget that after Christ's birth, He and His Family were sent to Egypt by an angel in Joseph's dream for their protection from Herod.

Solomon showed respect to his mother Bath-sheba, when she came to pass along Adonijah’s request, and had a seat brought in for her sit beside his throne.

Read my Scripture quote of this incident again... Solomon didn't fetch her a chair, he brought her a throne. I don't know about you but I don't recall another incident in the Bible (nor in world history) where a visitor is sat upon a throne for simple comfort. She was placed upon the throne because it was her right and station. Heck, when the Sons of Thunder asked to sit on Christ's right and left, Jesus said these positions were not His to give as they already belonged to those for whom they were prepared.

I fail to see the Ark as a type of Mary. I see the Ark as a type of Jesus Christ rather easily.

This is silly. What did the Ark do? It contained the manna from Heaven, Aaron's rod and the tables of the Covenant. In short, the bread from Heaven (Christ; John 6:51), authority over Israel (Christ as King), and the Law (Christ as Word). Your analogy fails utterly because Christ is not the Ark... He is its contents.

Going one step further, God's Spirit overshadowed the Ark in his Shekinah glory with just the same Biblical wording and structure as what was described to Mary when the angel said, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee."

In short, there is only one person who has born Christ within Her and had the Holy Spirit overshadow Her... and Her name is Mary.

God bless you.

25 posted on 11/11/2012 10:28:17 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

**Don’t you find it odd to be part of the Body of Christ and not acknowledge your own mother as such? Seriously, this isn’t the greatest logical leap in history.**

Face to face, the Lord addressed her as ‘woman’, and placed her no higher than anyone that hears the word of God and keeps it. So, we are to elevate her higher than He does?

She was used (quite willingly) to help bring forth the earthly man; that wept, hungered and thirsted, required sleep, didn’t want to die but did. His body is now a glorified body. Mary didn’t perform that change to his body.

**The woman of Revelation is Israel... and Mary.**

Would that be because your catechisim teaches that?

**Just as “my Son” in Hosea 11:1 refers to Israel in the particular and Christ in the fulfillment.**

Well, maybe you should write Hosea 11:1 in this fashion: “....called my son AND his mother out of Egypt.”

**She was placed upon the throne because it was her right and station.**

While the KJV calls it a ‘seat’, I agree that the hebrew word in both cases in that passage is ‘throne’. But, she apparently didn’t have a throne beside Solomon, but for that moment (which, as I said before, her request was denied). Bathsheba was Solomon’s mother, and David’s wife, yet never referred to as ‘queen’ in the Word.

**Your analogy fails utterly because Christ is not the Ark... He is its contents.**

He is all of it, and high priest as well. The pure gold candlestick-the Light that lighteth all men. The table of shewbread-the bread of life. The Ark-perishable wood (remember...he did die for a short time) covered with gold (non-perishable), in which there is bread from heaven, life from the dead (Aaron’s rod was dead), and the words of God (John 14:10). The Ark symbolizes the Holy Ghost filled man Christ Jesus; “IN HIM was life, and the life was the light of men”. The Spirit also dwelt upon him at his baptism.

**In short, there is only one person who has born Christ within Her and had the Holy Spirit overshadow Her... and Her name is Mary.**

Yet, all that are born of the Spirit are told by Paul that they have Christ in them, the hope of glory.

Really closing this post in haste. This discussion could be continued, but as a truck driver, my ‘steed awaits’.

til next time, Lord bless


26 posted on 11/12/2012 9:06:06 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel
Fine series of replies. In depth, but succinct, to the point and polite. Well done. Thank you.
27 posted on 11/12/2012 10:21:17 PM PST by BlueDragon (i'll fly away, oh glory, i'll fly away ...when i die hallelujah by-and-by, i'll fly away...)
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To: BlueDragon

Thank you for your kind words.

There are so many traditions that men have made that simply don’t have the Word to back them up. I thank God that he has taught me to be patient, and thorough when studying, so that I can notice details that are overlooked when one is reading too fast.

Lord bless


28 posted on 11/14/2012 7:14:19 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: BlueDragon

Reading slowly and thinking as you go makes some things kinda jump out, for instance:

When the Israelites were building the Tabernacle, they, per instructions, had to include quite a collection of badger skins. Were they what I know as badgers? If so, that was probably a slightly dangerous order to fill.


29 posted on 11/14/2012 7:24:57 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel
I've wondered about such also.

The English badger isn't quite as feisty as the North American one, so I've been told. 'Have no idea what a Sinai badger may have been like.

Yet we know what the badgers represented, both alive, and as hides --- the latter being humility. The tabernacle was a big 'ol gaudy thing otherwise. Cloaked in the humility of slain "sin".

Getting rid of the things might have made it safer for the people on a simple physical level, too, once the things were gone from the land where the people traveled and bivouacked.

Could you imagine your nine-year old daughter trudging to the outskirts of the camp, in the dark, carrying a small trowel-like spatula to to dig a small hole, then move dirt back to cover her own bodily wastes --- and somewhere along the line encountering a badger? It could tear her up. Much like like sin can wound us, body & soul.

It would hardly matter if one accompanied her, for the little nocturnal beasties are low to the ground, quiet, almost completely blend in with the surroundings (particularly in the dark) and quick. Whatever damage would be done, would happen in a flash, before intervention could prevent.

30 posted on 11/14/2012 8:35:59 PM PST by BlueDragon (i'll fly away, oh glory, i'll fly away ...when i die hallelujah by-and-by, i'll fly away...)
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