Posted on 08/25/2012 12:30:50 PM PDT by sayuncledave
Hello everyone and welcome to The Vortex where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed. I’m Michael Voris.
A big question has erupted lately around the question of how should Catholics vote. The choice for faithful Catholics isn’t between Obama and Romney. The idea of voting for Obama is simply off the table. No the choice is between voting for Romney or not. Under the “or not” category that could mean either just not voting for president at all, voting for a 3rd party guy or writing someone in.
Now immediately – the knee jerk and valid response on the part of many is – what do you mean; not voting at all IS a vote for Obama because your vote isn’t able to be used to cancel out a vote FOR him. And that is absolutely true and valid. As a matter of fact, in every presidential race I have voted with the exception of Ronald Reagan, I have for voted for the guy I did so that I could vote AGAINST the other guy. This strategy is often referred to as “choosing the lesser of two evils”. And it is a very logical short term strategy. In the case before us in this current election .. we have a man who is enemy of life, morality, and truth. It is unthinkable that may Catholic could cats a vote for Obama. So the thinking goes – then we have to hold our nose and vote for Romney .. not because he’s Romney, but because he’s NOT Obama.
Let’s look at this a little more deeply. Faithful Catholics don’t want Obama because he is a conduit for evil – no doubt about it. But think of this .. if/when a faithful Catholic goes into the voting booth and pulls a lever for Romney – he is pulling the lever for a man who supports same-sex civil unions and has stated that he thinks such couples should be able to adopt.
In short, the dilemma is a guy who supports a heck of a lot of evil, or a guy who supports a little less evil. Man, that’s our choice. And here’s the root of the problem. Faithful Catholics and under political conservatives have been used and abused by the Republican Party establishment for decades. In five of the last 8 presidential elections, a republican has won.
Abortion on demand is still the law of the land and America has continued her downward moral spiral, granted at varying speeds depending on which party is in control.
But that’s just the point – it boils down to a question of just how fast we are rocketing to 1 hell. Warp speed if the democrats are in charge, cruise control if the Republicans are. BUT THERE IS NEVER A REVERSAL OF COURSE. At some point, Catholics and other like minded moral people, who believe that the number one issue with America is not the economy but moral rot, have got to get out of this box of vote for the bad guy OR the REALLY bad guy.
Moral conservatives have been neglected and thrown crumbs from the table paid lip service for decades by the GOP establishment EXACTLY like African American voters have been abused and thrown crumbs from the table and paid lip service by the Democratic establishment for those same decades.
Million of children are still being aborted and the much of African American community is still mired in crushing poverty. How many elections does it take to realize that the establishment of both parties are conning their base for votes.
Just as the primary season began heating up .. leading republicans were putting the word out that all the moral values talk should stop – that we needed to concentrate on the economy and nothing else. They got quote the backlash for that.
The talk quickly died away, but it was revealing. It revealed where the heart and mind of party leadership is. And it ain’t with the moral agenda. Now .. granted .. there’s nothing at this late stage .. less than 90 days before the election that can happen to change the way this whole sorry game of money and influence and back-scratching is played .. not right now that is.
But there will be another election .. presumably and it is in the run up to the next one that serious moral conservatives .. Catholics, Protestants, Jews, have to take a good hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are really gonna keep supporting the party that takes us to hell at a slower pace.
Moral conservatives get treated this way because the party leadership knows at the end of the day .. most, practically all will choose the “lesser of two evils” option and therefore, the party establishment never has to give an account because they never have to suffer any consequences. Now there are good moral conservatives within the party, both parties as well as some fringe parties. Polls continue to show that around 40 percent of Americans identify themselves as conservatives. That probably varies on a range depending on what issue comes up specifically.
But nonetheless, these numbers are not small. Imagine what would happen if all the moral conservatives from both the republican and democratic parties .. not just supporters, but leaders as well, elected office holders, movers and shakers, the influence leaders who are sick of the status quo, but have resigned themselves to it, imagine if immediately after this election .. in preparation for the next .. said, “that’s it. Nothing ever really changes. A new party is needed where men and women from within the current party establishments leave the old game and start an entirely new one? What would be the possibilities?
Right now the system is set up within each party to simply hold on to power. What is done with that power – the moral good – is held hostage to the desire for power at almost any cost just for its own sake.
This would require a bold move .. motivated by conscience and a desire to see the moral good prevail .. on the part of current leaders. The rank and file joe average voter doesn’t have the ability to pull this off. But leaders within the parties do.
What’s to prevent them from getting on the phone with each other and talking about this idea. It’s the country and culture that’s at stake after all – their political careers are of no consequence.
If they try and lose, so what? They would have gone down in a blaze of glory fighting for the good, the true and the beautiful. But one thing is clear and it is this – moral conservatives, Catholics and others simply cannot be content to keep going into the booth and voting for FEWER intrinsic evils and expect that anything is gonna besides the SPEED with which we are morally decomposing.
Its highly doubtful that Obama supporters .. the tens of millions of them that will vote for him in a few weeks are undergoing any such moral dilemma and self-examination. They back him precisely BECAUSE of the evils he supports .. abortion .. same-sex marriage and so forth. Until moral conservatives can back a candidate with the same conviction and eagerness .. instead of this lackluster “hold your nose” approach, America will continue to disintegrate. It’s nothing else than a matter of speed, that’s all.
In order for the political order to change, the political process must change. When each party has become morally corrupt and only differ in degree, it’s time to hit the reset button.
GOD Love you, I’m Michael Voris
That seems pretty consistent with the founders:
"Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths... A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." (James Madison, Federalist Papers, the McClean Edition, Federalist Paper #10, page 81, 1788)
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Franklin, Benjamin
“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Our real disease - which is democracy.” - Alexander Hamilton
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams
“Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy; such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit, and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable [abominable] cruelty of one or a very few.” - John Adams
“A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way. The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness [excessive license] which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty.” - Fisher Ames
No kidding. Most Catholics on FR seem to have trouble with the statement that a functional, constitutional representative republic is the best form of government over any country, at any time. I suspect that many secretly believe that a "benevolent Catholic dictatorship" is better than a constitutional republic. Voris certainly thinks so, but how many Catholics publicly take Voris to task for it? The silence is deafening.
I’ve not gotten one since that monarchist guy in Texas got canned, I forget his screen name but he developed an odd fixation on trains much like Willie Green, shortly before departing.
That would be B-Chan, who was banned for posting his death-wish for democracy and preference for Monarchy, on a Voris thread.
1) We have a short term political problem:
Personally, I am voting for Romney because the alternative is just too horrific. Hopefully, it will buy us time for the longer term strategies to take effect.
2) Long term political strategies:
I am working with local Tea Parties. We have already won some major victories and we have moved moral and conservative candidates into positions where they have a really likelihood of moving into positions of power.
3) We need a moral revival in this nation starting with our CHILDREN!
Our **most** important mission field is our **own** children. The next most important mission field is the children of our congregation. Once we fully fulfill our responsibilities in these two areas, then we can reach out and be missionaries to others. Sending children into godless government schools is shear idiocy if we expect our children to adopt the Faith of their Fathers. Properly evangelizing our own children will yield good fruit in the future, and possibly armies of missionaries who will work to change the hearts of people one at a time.
Dirty poor and illiterate Catholics managed somehow to educate their children in tuition-free Catholic schools. Catholics in Wichita, Kansas, do it **today**! Now! So?...Why can't Christians across this nation do it NOW! If nuns were essentially dedicated volunteers, then why can faithful Christians ( especially those who are retired) volunteer as well? Do we lack tuition-free Christian schooling because there are too many government teachers sitting in the pews? Is it because too many wives of ministers are government teachers and employees? Are Christian leaders afraid of biting the hand that puts money in the collection plate?
We must pray for our nation but honestly I don't know why God would show us any favor:
1) Believing Christians continue to send their kids into godless indoctrination camps where their children **must** think and reason godlessly just to cooperate in the classroom. Do do this to a child is **fundamentally** against every Christian principle!
2) Millions can turn out to buy a chicken sandwich and somehow we can't shut down every abortion center in this nation and peacefully and legally make it impossible for them to make a profit? Really? Sure we could, if the will to do it were really there.
Descending into moral rot SLOWER is better than descending into moral rot FASTER.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It buys time. Which is sorely needed.
The Progressive Marxists got our nation to this point through infiltrating education ( which was really easy given that its been a socialist-entitlement from the beginning) and legislative gradualism. Little by little they tightened the ratchet.
So....For Christian conservatives to get **everything** they want **immediately** would require a bloody revolution. Personally, I think that would be horrific and absolutely every possible alternative must be explored and fully exploited to avoid that.
If Christians and moral conservatives can turn the ratchet in their direction perhaps in fifty years we can achieve **all** our goals. We must start with education, just as the Progressive Marxists did. We must work to completely shut down government owned and run K-12 schooling and get as many kids out of the Marxist dominated colleges as possible. ( Charles Murray has some good ideas on how to do that.)
Peace be with you
Are you having trouble saying that a functional, constitutional representative republic is the best form of government over any country, at any time?
Not at all, providing that the principles it is based upon are compatible with Catholic / Christian values. But not all republics are equal.
Are you having trouble saying that democracies are not objectively the same as republics and that a tyranny of a majority is less desirable than what Plato called philosopher kings, providing they espouse a wholly Christian philosophy?
Peace be with you
To be honest I’d much rather have the Papists running things than Barack Hussain Obama, Mitt Romney, Karl Rove, Nancy Pelosi, and so on and so forth. Voris is fundamentally right on Democracy, which is what our Republic has certainly devolved into, especially with the healthcare ruling. There is essentially no constitutional protected rights anymore, and I don’t expect them to be retrieved any time soon with our current flock of “representative” leaders. What will likely happen is this: At some point the ponzi scheme that is social security, medicare, medicaid and all the other government programs will reach a point where the banksters and politicians can no longer kick the can down the road. If the military is not stripped bare and if we do not immediately get invaded by the Russians and Chinese, then the economy will collapse, we’ll probably still get invaded, and what we’ll have at the end is a monarchy. And, in fact, there will be monarchies across the world, with little Hitlers here or there rising up from the ruins of the former capitalist economies that tried socialism and Godlessness and faced the inevitable result: absolute rule by evil men.
But this (arguing over Catholic Monarchies, Protestant monarchies) is like arguing over Utopias or our pet ideology, looking to a perfect world. The world will never be perfect, there will never be a perfect governmental order, and that is because men are inherently imperfect and prone to delusions and wickedness. A discussion about the tooth fairy or Santa Claus would be more beneficial.
Appreciate the effort. There aren't many Catholics that prefer a monarchy. I understand the logic and the appeal to the rational, but the fact is that nowhere in Catholic theology is the prescription of temporal government.
Is that your answer to my question, or an evasion? Where do you stand on the mentioned moral evils, such as abortion, so-called gay “marriage,” et al? If your sole intention was to insert another anti-Voris diatribe, take it to a more appropriate spot, such as your own posting, please. Your opinion of Voris has no bearing on the merits of the words of the original post. All it does is repeat your opinion.
LULWAT...? I can’t begin to read that many words
Thanks AM. Very interesting.
s, w added interest ping.
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