Yes, I certaily have known this, but I am not convinced he approved of an overarching bishopric that would take away the autonomy of the local churches, and subjugated them to a supralocal scheme. He was a bishop of a local church, as was Peter before him. In fact, I have a little hard time to believe that, unless the church was of predominantly Hebrew constitution, the ministry of Peter was to the circumcision, whereas that of Paul was to the Gentiles.
“Denomination” is a Protestant term, there is only one
I hate to tell you, but there are a lot of denominations, and Romanism is only one of them. Stick your head in the sand, but it won't make a difference to others. Hmmm. In the end, Christ will sort it out.
Skip all the disagreement and pray about the Real Presence, it is the pinnacle of the faith and shows true faith, one doesn’t see a change in the consecrated host.
I think you mean, "Don't interpret Scripture plain and factual." According to the Bible, the Real Presence, all of His Body and all of His Blood, is now in another spiritual dimension, in Heaven; and His sacrifice of His Body was ephapax = once-for-all-time; and all His Blood was placed on the hilasterion = Mercy Seat, and is the great riches of The Father The God, and He's not allowing one iota or keraia out of His direct, watchful eye, to disappear down a million gullets a day.
Figuratively, Christ's body is on the earth, and we engage in the ordinance of the Remembrance Supper that recalls the Last Supper; with tokens which figuratively represent His Body and His Blood, just as they did then. The elements of that supper were not extensions of His Substance. He instructed the disciples to use this example to remember their last moments with him; and later, of the meaning of His Passion. We are to do the same as He did then, with ordinary bread artos, and unleavened juice of the cluster.
"By the which will* we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once** for all. ...
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of The God,
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb. 10:10,12-14)
* the second, New Covenant, ** a strengthened form of hapax
That wraps up that part of "no more resacrificing," factual, and literal, no smoke and mirrors with the grammar.
What Jesus did promise was: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Holy Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7)
Of course, I am sure you know all this, but ignore the reasonable approach: When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense.
I believe from what I have read of their own writings and of later historians, that what happened early on was that many of the Greek-trained ante-Nicene patristics started applying uncalled-for allegorical and other philosophical tricks from their Platonic toolbox to elevate themselves; rather than sticking with a literal, historical, cultural day-to-day hermeneutic to interpret Scripture as The Holy Spirit wrote and meant for it to be understood. As I have mentioned before, leaving a straightforward, simple, direct, plain, ordinary, and literal sense of the phrases, clauses, and sentences, and flying to an irrational composite of allegories, metaphors, and other nonsensical devices places us in ever-more divisive postures, and destroying the unity of The Faith. Rationality has only come back since the general education of the public, tied with a literal, grammatical hermeneutic, allowed the True Faith revealed by God to reemerge omce again, despite every effort to suppress it by the powerful interests that it will undercut.
If an interpretation of the Holy Scriptures cannot stand without the three added hollow legs of humanistic reason, tradition, and experience propping it up, there is something wrong. When one says white is not black, OK. If that is not true, it is not OK by me. The Real Presence is in Heaven, where He said He would be. And the Holy Ghost is here in earth restraining evil, as promised.
St. Ignatius, 3rd Bishop of Antioch used the term Catholic for the first time. There is a hierarchy since he was a Bishop. St. Peter appointed Ignatius to Antioch.
“Yes, I certaily have known this, but I am not convinced he approved of an overarching bishopric that would take away the autonomy of the local churches, and subjugated them to a supralocal scheme. He was a bishop of a local church, as was Peter before him. In fact, I have a little hard time to believe that, unless the church was of predominantly Hebrew constitution, the ministry of Peter was to the circumcision, whereas that of Paul was to the Gentiles.”
~ ~ ~
I am back, returning because I want you to become Catholic one day. I am serious. Remember these FR discussions when the “awakening” happens.
Are you saying history shows Ignatius was a bishop but he
didn’t think himself to be an ordained bishop? Those who object centuries later, how can you all, we’re talking about
some of the same people who wrote the Gospel. Selective
in what you believe, don’t you want to believe all the
Apostles have passed down? Ignatius was 3rd Bishop of Antioch and it was Ignatius’ term, Catholic.
All Popes are the Bishop of Rome. Peter was more than the Bishop of Rome, He is head of the Church, Peter as Pope appointed Ignatius. There is record.
Theodoret (”Dial. Immutab.”, I, iv, 33a, Paris, 1642) is the authority for the statement that St. Peter appointed Ignatius to the See of Antioch. St. John Chrysostom lays special emphasis on the honor conferred upon the martyr in receiving his episcopal consecration at the hands of the Apostles themselves (”Hom. in St. Ig.”, IV. 587). Natalis Alexander quotes Theodoret to the same effect (III, xii, art. xvi, p. 53).
p.s. I do not see anything against the faith in this current message to Maria of Divine Mercy. Take the good from it, there is much good. Notice, the Protestant term for the Great Warning in their messages (private revelation) is used...the “awakening.”
Thursday, August 30th, 2012 @ 06:15 p.m.
Virgin Mary: The AWAKENING is coming soon.
My child the renewal of souls has already begun and the Era of Peace is not too far away.
As all of God’s children are being blessed by the Gift of the Word of my beloved and precious Son, the spread of the Holy Spirit continues to spread across all nations.
There will be no stopping the Word of my Son for this is by the command of My Father.
Conversion will ignite the hearts of humanity and many will feel the Love of God, their natural Father, grip them in such a way that it will surprise and shock them.
Once this Divine Love surges through them they will feel an urge to shout for joy for it is like no other love known to man.
The awakening is coming soon.
As the Spirit of God continues to fan out in Flames of Glory, evil will be diluted and Satan’s army will be left bereft of its soldiers.
It will be left defenseless because many of his followers will be won over by God’s Mercy, leaving Satan with only half an army.
Disillusioned with his empty promises they will respond to the Light of my Son’s Divine Mercy.
The battle has not only begun but souls are now following my Son in their multitudes as they seek out the Truth of Eternal Life.
I bless you my child.
Heaven rejoices because of the conversion of souls and the salvation of dark souls, which is being achieved through the PRAYERS of those who love my Son.
Your beloved Mother
Mother of Salvation
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/
Skip all the disagreement and pray about the Real Presence, it is the pinnacle of the faith and shows true faith, one doesn’t see a change in the consecrated host.
“I think you mean, “Don’t interpret Scripture plain and factual.” According to the Bible, the Real Presence, all of His Body and all of His Blood, is now in another spiritual dimension, in Heaven; and His sacrifice of His Body was ephapax = once-for-all-time; and all His Blood was placed on the hilasterion = Mercy Seat, and is the great riches of The Father The God, and He’s not allowing one iota or keraia out of His direct, watchful eye, to disappear down a million gullets a day”
~ ~ ~
Our Lord stated “plain and factual” the words “This IS My Body.” Our Lord did not say “This is a remembrance of My suffering death on the cross” or “This is a symbol of My Body.” You are limiting God because you would have acknowledge the facts for 2000 years, you would have to become Catholic. So you say no. You object at the end again saying no, Jesus is in Heaven. God can do anything, be anywhere He wishes. It is God’s plan to come to everyone this way, believe, it is supernatural. You have to have faith, trust that is totally Him in the consecrated host, God loves when you have faith.
Your final comment. A quote, better than I could explain ~ ~ “It follows, the, that the Body of Christ remains as long as the sacramental species remain intact, that is, until they corrupt. When corruption takes place, either with age or with consumption, so that the species are no longer those of bread and wine, the Body of Christ ceases to be present because the sings are gone. Accordingly, we can say with certainty that the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist begins with the Consecration and ends only with the corruption of the species.” Father Kenneth Baker SJ
“Figuratively, Christ’s body is on the earth, and we engage in the ordinance of the Remembrance Supper that recalls the Last Supper; with tokens which figuratively represent His Body and His Blood, just as they did then. The elements of that supper were not extensions of His Substance. He instructed the disciples to use this example to remember their last moments with him; and later, of the meaning of His Passion. We are to do the same as He did then, with ordinary bread artos, and unleavened juice of the cluster.
“By the which will* we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once** for all. ...
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of The God,
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” (Heb. 10:10,12-14)
* the second, New Covenant, ** a strengthened form of hapax”
~ ~ ~
“Once for all” means Christ’s bloody suffering death on the Cross happened once. His “sacrifice” for mankind is represented to the Father every day and every hour around the world in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Read Revelation, the Mass on earth follows the Holy Liturgy in Heaven. It’s God’s plan, in Daniel and Malachi the Mass and the Holy Eucharist are prophesied. In Daniel, the “continual sacrifice”, this is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Eucharist is the “clean oblation” in Malachi. “Through His intercessory ministry in heaven and through the Mass, Jesus continues to offer Himself to His Father as a living sacrifice, and He does so in what the Church specifically states is “an unbloody manner.”
See below, how the KJV changes the verse, from the original. The Douay-Rheims is a word for word translation of Jerome’s Latin Vulgate.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1364 In the New Testament, the memorial takes on a new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ’s Passover, and it is made present: the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains every present. (Cf. Heb 7:25-27) As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which ‘Christ our Pasch has been sacrifice’ is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out. (Lumen Gentium 3; cf. 1 Cor 5:7)
King James Version (KJV)
Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a PURE OFFERING: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.
Douay-Rheims http://www.drbo.org/
Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a CLEAN OBLATION: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts