Posted on 10/03/2012 10:14:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
The new documentary Hellbound? has reignited discussion about the perennial topic of hell as well as revealed some very bizarre perspectives.
Kevin Miller, the film’s director, who identifies as a Christian, stated in an interview that, regarding the traditional view of hell as a place of fiery torment, “I don’t see anything in the Bible that would lead me to believe that such a place exists.” Instead, according to Miller, when Jesus talked about hell, he was talking about the here and now.
Really? Jesus didn’t warn about a place of judgment to come? And Director Miller gets his denial of hell from the Bible? Perhaps he is reading into the Scriptures what he would like them to say? Warnings like this from Jesus, spoken with rhetorical urgency, are hard to dismiss: “If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.” (Matthew 5:29)
Frank Schaeffer, son of the late and revered evangelical leader, philosopher Francis Schaeffer, appeared in the movie and is more aggressive in his dismissal of hell. He writes in his column in the Huffington Post, “People ‘defending’ God have completely screwed up America and our politics. And their version of ‘God’ f----d up the first half of my life too.”
He claims that, “Hell is irrelevant because of course there isn’t one. The movie is important though because it exposes a real question: how can we survive the God-nuts who take this stuff seriously? Hellbound? is our chance to get to know the enemies of what’s left of our crumbling ‘civilization.’”
So, those who believe in a place of future judgment are “the enemies of what’s left of our crumbling ‘civilization,’” by which he explicitly means America.
Schaeffer continues, “Talking about hell in and of itself is a waste of time because if there is a ‘God’ no one knows anything about him/her or it and they never will, let alone about what he/she or it will ‘do’ about the ‘lost.’ But there are people, lots of them, who think hell is real because it fits their kill-your-neighbor-if-he-looks-at-you-funny vision of ‘life.’”
Well, I just learned something new: If I believe that God will bring about justice in the world to come and settle wrongs at the time of resurrection, I believe this because it fits my “kill-my-neighbor-if-he-looks-at-my-funny vision of ‘life.’” Seriously?
But there’s more. For Schaeffer, America’s hawkish tendencies and aggressive foreign policy directly relate to our fundamentalist reading of the Bible: “Thank you St. John (or whomever) loon was the author of the ‘book’/acid-trip of Revelation, for giving us a deluded roadmap so that the Americans who can’t find France on a map can get their foreign ‘policy’ marching orders direct from a ‘prophet’ huddling in a cave alone with his odd brain 2000 years ago.”
Aside from the fact that it is sad to see someone like Frank Schaffer, who once held to evangelical Christian beliefs, then Greek Orthodox beliefs, turn into such a Bible mocker, it is more than a stretch – shall we call it a leap of incredulity? – to claim that America fought (or is fighting) wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other places, because of a literal belief in hell and the Scriptures.
Interestingly, a study “appearing in the Public Library of Science journal PLoS ONE, found that criminal activity is lower in societies where people’s religious beliefs contain a strong punitive component than in places where religious beliefs are more benevolent. A country where many more people believe in heaven than in hell, for example, is likely to have a much higher crime rate than one where these beliefs are about equal. The finding surfaced from a comprehensive analysis of 26 years of data involving 143,197 people in 67 countries.”
According to Azim F. Shariff, professor of psychology and director of the Culture and Morality Lab at the University of Oregon, “The key finding is that, controlling for each other, a nation’s rate of belief in hell predicts lower crime rates, but the nation’s rate of belief in heaven predicts higher crime rates, and these are strong effects. . . . The finding is consistent with controlled research we’ve done in the lab, but here shows a powerful ‘real world’ effect on something that really affects people -- crime.”
Here in America, belief in hell remains prevalent, and a 2003 poll by George Barna indicated that 71% of the population “said that there is such a thing as Hell.” At the same time, “just one-half of 1% expect to go to Hell upon their death.” So, hell is real, but none of us are going there!
Putting aside our religious differences, perhaps the questions we need to ask ourselves are these: 1) Are there lasting consequences to our actions? 2) Will there be an ultimate judgment and final justice? 3) If so, how should we live today?
_____________________________
Michael Brown holds a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from New York University and has served as a professor at a number of seminaries. He hosts the nationally syndicated, daily talk radio show, the Line of Fire, and his latest book is The Real Kosher Jesus.
Thank you
You’re welcome.
Practical details about heaven and hell???..you really believe anyone, even a freeper, has those details and can prove them?
A country where many more people believe in heaven than in hell, for example, is likely to have a much higher crime rate than one where these beliefs are about equal. The finding surfaced from a comprehensive analysis of 26 years of data involving 143,197 people in 67 countries.”
==============================================================Just being a Christian and believing you have a right to live and be free is a crime in this modern world.
I have been told on occasion that I am Hellbound, being that I’m not a Christian.
Or if i was in the dessert dieing of thirst you would not stop and give me some water.
Or if i was starving to death you would not give me something to eat?
Because you saw yourself as your own god, God gives you exactly what you want, the place where you can be your own god. Everyday is the same, everyday your pleasures are the same, everyday your pain is the same.
What hell i have had here on earth i have made for my self and i think that is what you mean.
I kind of see eternal hell as being unfit to ever live again, just a lonely soul wanting to enjoy what it had before but can,t with out a body.
But the scriptures deny that kind of thinking because it says.
Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The Bible also speaks of eternal punishment, so people can argue their heads off , one in favor of one scripture and some one else in favor of another.
But the fact is we just don,t know.
If I came across a stranger under these circumstances, I would help them.
god only created us so he, she, or it could see how much we can get away with without being caught by other humans. The person leaving the earth with the most intriguing cold cases get the biggest plots of land in heaven. Sounds like a god humanists and moral relativists can believe in.
If I came across a stranger under these circumstances, I would help them.
That is pretty much all that Jesus told Christians to do.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you pretty much covers every thing.
Jesus also said that those who believed in him, he would raise them up at the last day.
If that’s really how you see it, I’m very sorry.
If that’s really how you see it, I’m very sorry.
No, that is your own personnel god from what you have described over the years taken to a philosophical conclusion. Confusion is your theology, so there you go.
As I said, I’m sorry for you if that is truly how you see things.
Sorry about what, lol? How do you define your god? From your post its strictly how you feel. There is no enumeration and no intellect about your theology, just “wish upon a star and gamble” bit. Hence, a confused soul who has no idea. I am the one who is sorry for you.
Ok
Yes, I do drive that particular highway (as intoned by AC/DC, and one of my favorite songs to blast as I drive).
Judging from the speedometer, I’m going to be there soon.
Indeed. While his father was wonderful(and absolutely the only reason his son gets any attention at all IMHO), does anyone actually ever listen to anything he says?
Please do not take offense to my post.
I am interested in inquiries from all POV. You raise some challenging questions that should be debated more often in the public square.
On topic, if a god is lacks perfect justice, than that god is absent of trust and loyalty on on part. Consider all the suffering in the world allowed by god. If a god only contained unconditional love, all the suffering and death would not be present in this temporal universe. How do you know if heaven awaits considering how in “unperfect” this world is? How do you trust in this god?
First of all, as far as I am concerned, there is only one God, so there is no...’a god’ in my life.
Some people are in HELL NOW....
The fires are in their mind, mental fires..
And the demons are “ideas”... they love their demons..
Its good, they need to be “there”.....
Trying to rescue them is a fools quest..
They are “there” because they need to be there..
Hell is quite real... its in the perception..
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