Posted on 11/29/2012 2:55:12 PM PST by DaveMSmith
I wonder what it is in these "other" books that some Catholics think excluding them from the other books EVERYONE agrees are Divinely-inspired presents this "roadblock" between themselves and the grace Christ wants to pour out on them? I think the REAL point is not at all that they really care about these extra books but that they can pull their "Luther card" to try to make ALL non-Catholics out to be missing a "fuller" faith that they alone think they have as well as "their" church having the only authority TO decide what is and is not Scripture.
I'll bet if you asked one to tell you what deep theological truth is contained in these books that are not also found in the mutually acknowledged ones, no one could name even one thing. The ONLY one I have ever heard attempted is the idea of "Purgatory" possibly being discussed in the book of Maccabees, but even that one is questionable because it never uses the word (nor is it found in any others) and it speaks of idolaters being prayed for - hardly jiving with Purgatory being a place to cleanse "venal" sins. Pretty sure worshiping false gods is a "mortal" no-no.
LOL, ROTFL, it's getting funnier and funnier.
The truth is that Luther removed books from the Bible. Books that Christ and the Apostles never said were in error, books that had been accepted as inspired Scripture since before Christ was born, books accepted as part of the Christian Scripture at least since Vulgate was complete, books that directly contradict what Luther preached as being the truth.
The only people hiding from the truth are the people who claim that Luther knew more about what should be included in the Bible than Christ Himself who is, in fact, The Word. That someone would even argue Luther throwing out portions of the Bible is meaningless proves that such folks are under a strong delusion.
Those who only accept the Luther Subset of Scripture are also only accepting a subset of Christ and in doing so placing their intellect on par with Christ. That's not faith, that's not being led by the Holy Spirit, that's not surrendering to Christ and following Him, that's following your own agenda exactly the same way Eve did.
You can yuk it up all night, or read the link I gave that proves Luther did NOT remove ANY books from the Bible. Here is the link again:
http://tquid.sharpens.org/Luther_%20canon.htm#a2
Read it and then still tell me Luther removed books from the Bible.
Yes, Luther removed books from the Bible and whatever bogus road apples someone spreads saying differently are just crutches for those who refuse to surrender to Christ but want to still pretend they’re Christian.
Where is your source that proves your contention? Did you even BOTHER to read the one I gave? If not, what are you afraid of? And, for the last time, NO ONE follows Martin Luther. He was a fallible man who lived during a turbulent time in Christian history. He translated the ENTIRE Bible into the common German language and not one book was omitted from it.
What Luther disagreed with was separated from and the balance of the Old Testament and clearly delimited as not being a portion of the inspired works in the Bible. When publishers decided to increase their profit margins by printing Bibles without those books even as an Appendix doesn’t make any difference.
From Luther onward those books Luther disagreed with were clearly marked as not being inspired and as not being part of the Bible. Whether they were bound with many versions as an Appendix or not doesn't change anything. There may be a few dolts around who pretend that denying and teaching books aren't inspired and not part of the Bible isn't the same thing as removing them from the Bible, but such folks are just desperate for an excuse or they're a whole burger short of a Happy Meal.
but if it otherwise be a hobby-horse for some...by all means, ride it off into the sunset.
My car owner's manual said, "To start; turn key clockwise."
They recalled it and changed the wording; "To start; only turn key clockwise."
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
1 John 3:21-24
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
No problem; as Christianity has been 'restored'.
NOW there is only ONE correct church.
(So I've been told... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement )
Sadly; some Christians do not like it when other Christians try to combat false teachings.
I never miss a bullseye when shooting.
I shoot, then draw a circle around wherever the hole is.
I just HATE it when others claim someone else is WRONG; and then NEVER have any data to back up THEIR claim!
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Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
"Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
And now you know the Biblical position!
Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
But there IS hope!!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
I’ve long known the Biblical position, but thanks so much for giving me your personal interpretation of those portions of Scripture you choose to accept at the moment.
It appears that we ALL are ignoring the elephant in the room: namely the THROWN OUT BOOKS.
So; I ask one and all, "Just what important theological concepts are contained in those missing pieces and what are the ramifications for NOT having them?"
Oh?
Just WHAT did I 'interpret'?
Purgatory is clear
just off the top of my head, and several prophecies of Christ are very clear, there are other doctrines clarified and clearly mentioned but I feel sure those who don't accept the entire Bible will just dismiss those things as unimportant.
Of course, they're not, if for other reason than a great many lies about what the Catholic Church teaches are based on claiming that those two doctrines and others were fabricated and not based on Scripture.
The fact that Catholic doctrines are based on Scripture is something a good many folks refuse to believe and they're aided in their attacks on the Catholic Church by their denial that those books are an inspired portion of the Bible. Given the fact that a great many people accept the doctrine of Scripture Alone, it's always interesting to me to see people argue that tossing out a portion of Scripture, even if it were all poetry, makes no difference.
have a nice day
Or, did I miss you trying to show that Christ was using the only Aramaic word for Rock when he said both to and of Peter that He would build His Church on this Rock?
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