Posted on 12/23/2012 6:27:37 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
bump for later
Clive Staple Lewis responding to a student’s inquiry relative to the body-soul dichotomy: “You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body”
Thank you for the post - may the Ruakh ha Kodesh bless you and yours this Christmas season!
Doing a quick review of the material on the net I was able to find both Catholic and Protestant discussions finding material for their respective ecclesiastical structures in the exact same statements by St. Paul.
This seems to be a very ancient sort of analysis ~ to find out what God created in man.
Thank you. May God bless and keep you and yours.
Merry CHRISTmas.
Good point.
I’m sorry, but to me it isn’t nearly that complicated.
In Genesis Chapter 5 we learn all we need to about Who and What God is and Who and what man is to Him:
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
God/Adam
In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Adam/Seth
and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image;
We are like God just as Seth is like Adam. I don’t know how it could be more clear.
Merry Christmas!
The "likeness" is the spiritual aspect. None of us have seen God and none of us know what He looks like so none of us can say that we are the physical "likeness" of God. However, we do know that God is a spirit and we were created with a spirit.
Our "likeness" to God is our spiritual aspect, not the physical aspect.
There is a flaw in your logic.
1) We are from Seth/Cain (actually Noah). Therefore we are like Adam-not God.
2) Adam sinned. God does not. Therefore Adam is not like God.
3) Since we are from Adam, and Adam is not like God, we are not like God.
Our “likeness” to God is our spiritual aspect, not the physical aspect. . . .
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I realize that is what everybody says, but, the scripture in Genesis makes no such differentiation.
I think that God sets up in the very first scriptures He give us of just what He is and what we are.
My personal feeling is that Since Christ says if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father and that we will all be one with Him and in Him like He is one with the Father. This has to mean that at some point we will be like the Father. Since the angels that stood by while Jesus ascended into heaven told us not to marvel because Jesus would come back in just the same way He left. Not as a Spirit, He made that perfectly clear several times, but as flesh. Christ is Flesh and we will be resurrected in the flesh as Job says and join Christ and be like Him.
There is so much of plain facts that are ignored in the Bible. If we ignore facts then we can make whatever we want be true. I know it is easy to say that seminarians who have studied this are a lot smarter than me and understand what the Bible writers “really” meant and how I don’t understand the “real” meaning.
I personally believe in the God of Abraham who had a Son who meant as much to Him as Issac did to Abraham and that that same God allowed this favorite Son to be sacrificed to pay for my sins because He loves me and my kind too.
We are the offspring of a heavenly being. God is our Father. We will be like our Father when we grow up.
I Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
They sinned, and obviously did not die physically. The death was spiritual.
And, as we know from Scripture
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin (Romans 5:12)
So, Adam and Eve did not die physically but, as God said they would, they did die and, through them death entered the world. Their sin necessitated the death of animals in order to cover them. I don't see anything in Genesis that indicates that the deaths of the animals was anything but a necessary act of God to provide clothes for Adam and Eve.
The 1 Corinthians Scripture actually confirms what the article says.
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, The first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
The physical part was created first, then God breathed the spirit into man. Since God ordained that sin would bring death, Adam sinned, remained alive physically, died spiritually, that condition was passed down to every human who would ever live, and it would take the death of Jesus Christ to eliminate spiritual death.
The article is correct. We don't know if we are the physical likeness of God because we have never seen Him. However, we do know that, through the death and resurrection of Christ, we can be one with Him spiritually. Christ's death was for our spiritual reconciliation, since physical bodies will eventually die and our spiritual part will be what remains.
Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will surely die. Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God had another type of death in mindspiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God. The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.
A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as being alienated from the life of God in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, (Ephesians 2:1). When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins (Colossians 2:13).
The book of Revelation speaks of a second death, which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).
So, yes there are two deaths for those who remain in their natural, unredeemed state at physical death.
See post 17.
Actually, they did die physically, just not right then. There's no telling how much time passed from the creation until Adam/Eve ate the fruit. But at that instant, they transformed from immortal to mortal.
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