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I just have one question, sasportas, that not surprisingly you haven't answered, but I'll give it one last shot just to see if you have a shred of Christianity or belief in Scripture at all.

Is the following true or false:

upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. (Matthew 16:18)

Jesus said that, sasportas. Is it true or false? Now if there's no response like there hasn't been the last two times I asked you that, I'll take that as a no, it's not true because if you believe that those words of Jesus are true, you'll respond immediately.

It's a simple, yes or no question, although it does require the you to have the courage to either be honest to your false doctrine and not respond or not be honest to your false doctrine and admit that what Jesus said there is true.

Is what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 16:18, which is posted for you above, true or is it false?

"These are not people who received Christ during the Age of Grace; they have missed the Rapture because they did not know Christ at that time but become saved after the Rapture and during the Tribulation."

Rev 3:8 "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it..."

Rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock..."

The church that has a little strength has before it an open door....the church that thinks it has everything has before it a shut door and will have to "buy of me gold tried in the fire".That door here that no man has shut,is,I believe,the rapture.

Upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. (Matthew 16:18)

Nothing to avoid here, though from the way you brandish it about, you intend to use it as loaded question. Having been a former pretribber myself, I think I know where you are coming from. It goes something like this, the church will be overpowered totally by the antichrist in the tribulation, therefore, since Jesus said his church will not be overpowered, it must be raptured out before the tribulation. That’s the theory behind it anyway.

What this is is just another inference. Where one might infer a pretrib rapture. Pretribs think an inference is all they need. Not so, you first need a clear setting forth somewhere in scripture of a two stage second coming, THEN an inference such as this would have validity. But you are lacking that clear setting forth of a two stage second coming, therefore all you have is just another inference.

Take a look at this scripture, “For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake,” Phil. 1:29. and this one, 2 Tim. 2:12, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with him.” There is no crown without a cross, GN.

Because many will suffer in the tribulation does not mean they have been overpowered. Was Jesus overpowered in his crucifixion? Was Paul overpowered in his martyrdom? What Jesus meant by being overcome must not be what you think it means.

Moreover, despite the martyrdom in the tribulation, not everybody in the church will be martyred. Didn’t Paul say, “we which are alive and remain?” (shall be caught up with those who had been martyred, the dead in Christ, in the rapture, 1 Thess. 4)

One thing you and I can be sure of, his church will not be defeated in the tribulation, but will be victorious in it. Jesus said so.