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Viewpoint: 'Hold on to what you believe' [Lds: 'Does it feel...everyone you know is falling away?']
BYU Universe ^ | Nov. 12, 2012 | Laura Thomas

Posted on 02/17/2013 8:50:07 PM PST by Colofornian

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To: svcw; Colofornian

Thanks for posting. Informative, educational.


21 posted on 02/18/2013 9:22:33 AM PST by PGalt
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To: svcw
This article was written at BYU, a mormon college about mormonism.

We are smart...




 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


22 posted on 02/18/2013 9:41:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Sorry Colofornian. I forgot to add "snarky unwarranted sarcasm" to my earlier list.

I have no problems with anyone engaging in the expression of free speech. I DO have a problem with someone whose revelling in being "saved" seems to be largely augmented by looking down their noses at the poor rubes who are not part of their heavenly club. I dont care whether they are mormons, catholics, evangelicals or reformed toadstool worshippers. Triumphalism, i.e. the arrogant belief that your preferred set of ordering worship is superior to that of the church down the road, has no place in Christian thought. The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that Christians have going for them is that we have a savior. Everything else is window dressing.

I applaud you talking to the poor lady in your example. But I would stop you if you did it by beating her around the head with your bible.

23 posted on 02/22/2013 1:12:43 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

Your opposition to exposition of cult doctrine and the posting of opposing biblical scripture is best presented to the Religion Moderator, who I’m sure will enlighten you as to the propriety of these topics on this forum.


24 posted on 02/22/2013 1:55:35 AM PST by fattigermaster (When tigers hunt, the jackals profit...when tigkers sleep, the jackals rule.)
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To: Vanders9
Triumphalism, i.e. the arrogant belief that your preferred set of ordering worship is superior to that of the church down the road, has no place in Christian thought.

Did Jesus engage in "Triumphalism" versus the Pharisees with his message of Matthew 23?

Did the early Church fathers of Christianity engage in "triumphalism" vs. Gnostic sects & Arianism heresies?

What do you do? Do you just go about totally revising the New Testament and early Christian church history where-ever it doesn't "fit" with your sectarian brand?

...I DO have a problem with someone whose revelling in being "saved" seems to be largely augmented by looking down their noses at the poor rubes who are not part of their heavenly club...arrogant belief that your preferred set of ordering worship is superior to that of the church down the road...

IOW...your set of ordering outreach MUST BE "superior to that of" my church down FReeper road, eh?

So how is it that...
...as you look down your nose at my engagement of what every major Christian denomination regards as "heresy" that you manage to escape your own finger-pointing of "arrogance"?
If my outreach technique doesn't match your elitist standard, am I not a "poor rube" in your eyes?

If you accuse me of doing something that "has no place in Christian thought" -- are you not engaging in your own intolerant heresy hunting whereby you flunk your own standards of perceived tolerance? Are you not thereby engaging in your own version of "Christian triumphalism" where you're expressing, "Boy, I'm glad I'm not a sinner like that Colofornian is"???

I applaud you talking to the poor lady in your example. But I would stop you if you did it by beating her around the head with your bible.

EXPOSING people to Biblical concepts is not automatic IMPOSING upon people from the Bible...'tis your unproved assumption of hyperbole that translates such to "beating...round the head."

Elsewise, you'd have been guilty of beating me over the head with your Bible in your last post...
...since your accusations were plenty...(elitism; triumphalism; arrogance; superiorism; "no place in Christian thought"; assaulting women)
...If you were somehow representing some kind of "kinder and gentler" humble version of Christianity, sorry, you flunked your own personal standards with that post!!!

25 posted on 02/22/2013 11:14:06 AM PST by Colofornian (Lds say Christian sects are 'apostates' & Lds=1 true church...means we are NOT 'fellow Xtians')
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To: fattigermaster

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you are talking about. I havent expressed opposition to anything except smugness and trampling over other people. I dont mind if people want to fire bible verses at each other, or engage in rationale debate.


26 posted on 02/24/2013 9:08:19 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Colofornian
Wow, you seem to have drawn an awful lot from what I thought was a very mild post calling for more civility when dealing with others.

Well, to set the record straight, I'm not trying to revise the NT or early Church history - I dont think I mentioned any of that. I just think that witnessing to someone is more effective if you respect their situation, even if you disagree with it. Honey catches more flies than vinegar. Or if you want to be more scriptural, Jesus talking to the woman at the well.

I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking about you personally with the bit about those "revelling in being "saved" seems to be largely augmented by looking down their noses at the poor rubes who are not part of their heavenly club" and "arrogant belief that your preferred set of ordering worship is superior to that of the church down the road". I was speaking in general terms. The tragic fact is that kind of thing does happen. There are Christians who seem to spend more time bashing other Christians about points of theology than they do standing up to secularism, islam, or neo-paganism. I've been on the recieving end of a lot of that, and so I'm quite sensitised to it. Its very saddening and very painful. Friendly fire always is.

I'm a Baptist. I'm a baptist by conviction. I disagree with some of the beliefs and practices of the Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans and Catholics I have come across, but I don't deny they are Christian. Some Catholics (and extreme protestant groups) dont afford me the same consideration, and I resent that. I resent that an awful lot. I particularly dont like getting it on this site.

Mormans and Jehovahs Witnesses are heretics, but that just means they are wrong. Of course exposing people to the correct Biblical concepts is not automatically imposing upon people from the Bible - but some people do that, and I think that although with God's grace that can work it's more usually counter-productive. Again I wasnt attacking you personally - I don't know how you work - I was making a general comment. I apologise if you've taken that to heart.

27 posted on 02/24/2013 9:35:55 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9
"Exposing people to Biblical concepts...is more usually counterproductive."

Baptist, huh.

Lying for the Lord

28 posted on 02/24/2013 10:57:58 AM PST by fattigermaster (Train for life in prison because they are stacking the bricks and setting the bars around you.)
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To: fattigermaster
You're indulging in a bit of lying for the Lord yourself friend! You can misrepresent anyone by the technique of selectively printing their statements. The bit you conveniently left out is important.

is not automatically imposing upon people from the Bible - but some people do that, and I think that although with God's grace that can work IOW, some people still go after Heretics and non believers with what used to be called "bible-bashing" - a heavy handed stream of assertions. Increasingly people you witness to today won't put up with that. Your post will be reported.

29 posted on 02/25/2013 12:30:54 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

I’m absolutely terrified.


30 posted on 02/25/2013 5:21:49 AM PST by fattigermaster (Train for life in prison because they are stacking the bricks and setting the bars around you.)
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To: Colofornian

Religion is and always has been the problem. Religion is man made way, a human invention, to worship God. He doesn’t want a man made system to worship him. That is what Leviticus is about. Under that system, there is no way for us to get close to Him- or to get it right.

He want’s us to love one another, show mercy, and follow Him humbly- exalting only the one God (because everyone else wants to consume us), and nothing else.

Religion is this woman’s problem- not unbelievers.


31 posted on 02/25/2013 5:28:45 AM PST by Truth2012
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To: fattigermaster

You should be. You’re in danger of hellfire.


32 posted on 02/25/2013 7:36:10 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

My, thou art full of thyself. What’s the matter, troll, is nobody paying attention to you?


33 posted on 02/25/2013 9:16:00 AM PST by fattigermaster (Train for life in prison because they are stacking the bricks and setting the bars around you.)
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To: fattigermaster

You bear false witness. And you indulge in personal attacks.


34 posted on 02/25/2013 4:15:27 PM PST by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

I can tell you’re very lonely. But I already have a date.


35 posted on 02/25/2013 5:03:40 PM PST by fattigermaster (Train for life in prison because they are stacking the bricks and setting the bars around you.)
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