I Love Talking To Ex-Mormon Atheists

Mormon Coffee (blog.mrm.org) ^ | March 7, 2013 | Aaron Shafovaloff

[Colofornian]

The author asks the question: “do you feel sorrow over the absurdity of life?”. Again I reject the premise that life is absurd if there is no God. I think that life is an end in itself. It needs no external sanction or purpose. My life has meaning to me and I need look no further than my self for a purpose. I am the meaning and the purpose of my life.

Let's focus on the "meat" of this "sandwich":

"Life...needs NO external sanction or purpose."

When we unpack that statement, while the rest of your comments says there can be a private, a personal, a processional self-purpose for life, what this "meat" of your comment says is:
"Life...needs NO social OR social ethical sanction or purpose."

So do YOU REALLY believe there is no social or no social ethical sanction or purpose within life?

[svcw]

There is no morality without God.
You might be able to be ethical or legal but you cannot be moral.

[Colofornian]

There is no morality without God. You might be able to be ethical or legal but you cannot be moral.

Well, even ethics is mostly social ethics...and if you look @ Albion's definition of "life purpose" -- 'twas solely an interior purpose...he seemed to basically agree that "external" purposes are beyond his mark.

IoW, in Albion's grand "scheme" of things, "THE life purpose" is basically SELF...full of SELF (something we might otherwise call "SELFishness")...and nothing else.

Wow! What a horrid way to live!

[Tennessee Nana]

The LORD Jesus Christ and His whip...

and the things He said ...

“Whited sepulchers !!!” “Vipers !!!”

Oh noez...

[albionin]

I disagree.

[svcw]

Reality is its not possible to be ethical as ethics are founded in morality.

[svcw]

Disagreement is a moral choice, without God it is not possible.
Morality is founded in God, it is not a personal choice.

[svcw]

But that’s not the Christian way.....oh wait!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Placemarker

[albionin]

I don’t know where you got the “and nothing else” from. I simply mean that I need no outside authority or force to give meaning to my life. If I were alone on a desert Island my life would still have meaning. There would still be things for me to achieve and to learn. I would still have a purpose.

[Colofornian]

If I were alone on a desert Island my life would still have meaning. There would still be things for me to achieve and to learn. I would still have a purpose.

You make my point exactly. Note that your first impulse to defend your position is a solo one -- "alone on a desert island."

So, apparently, there's no social or ethical purpose to your life, eh?

Your self-contained "purpose" resides ONLY within you...and fits best "alone on an desert island."

Now that is truly sad.

[albionin]

I don’t agree. I think morality is that which is proper for man’s life as a rational being.

[svcw]

You are so right Color...very sad.

[svcw]

Morality is not defined by the individual, it is in the preview of God.
You can be moral, ethical or legal.
Morality is within God.
Ethical maybe or maybe not as most ethics are derived by the moral.
The best you can hope for is the legal, and even that is iffy.

[albionin]

I am not sure what you mean by a social ethical sanction. If you are asking me if I can do anything I feel like doing then no I don’t believe that. I believe there is an objective standard of morality. Man’s life is the standard or to put it another way man’s individual rights are the standard. Man’s rights are a consequence of his nature which is an objective absolute. Anything that violates individual rights is immoral.

[albionin]

A code of ethics is a code of morality.

[svcw]

Then without God a person can be neither moral or ethical, only legal at best.

[albionin]

Not at all. I think it is sad to depend on others to give your life meaning. If you mean that my life can have no meaning or purpose unless I serve others then I not only consider that wrong but evil. If I do things for others it is because I have a selfish interest. I never do anything selflessly and despise a person who does. But I think you and I would have a very different definition of what is selfish and what is selfless. That is because we are coming from a completely different metaphysics and epistemology.

[albionin]

I can.

[Colofornian]

I believe there is an objective standard of morality. Man’s life is the standard or to put it another way man’s individual rights are the standard.

(As if there are "objective" agreements on men's "individual rights" even from one country to another...even in China, some provinces are a little more lax on the "one child allowed per family" -- and others are quite strict in enforcing that...cultures greatly differ on individual female rights...so here you cite often arbitrary distinctions & arbitrary cultural "standards" as some sort of "standard"...sorry, that's all quite subjective, NOT objective)