More Mormons moving from 'Easter disconnect' to Christian worship services [Vanity]

Colofornian | March 13, 2013 | Colofornian

[Colofornian]

Free Republic can no longer post Salt Lake Tribune based threads...but we can still link to them. Just last week, the Trib ran this very significant article:

Mormons increasingly drawn to Holy Week rituals

In other words, Mormons are attending Christian church services during Holy Week! (And they love the services there!)

To understand this, you have to understand the backdrop -- the vacuum of Jesus and the cross within Mormonism:

1. BYU study: Disconnect between Mormons and Easter

In this article, published by the Mormon church owned Deseret News, it said that Easter has ”only 'lightly more planning than the Fourth of July,'

2. Preparing for Easter through Holy Week

From this article: While the LDS community does not formally observe Holy Week, the period from Palm Sunday to Easter morning… Suddenly I realized that my observance of Easter was rather pale by comparison…

For a fresh thread, see: Easter essays ['In the LDS church it never really hit me what Jesus did for me']

(Please also review:)

* What is the Significance of Easter for Mormons?

* Mormons have sub-par Easter services [testimony from a Mormon]

* Why don't Mormon's celebrate Easter? [Asked by a Mormon]

* Lent celebrated locally as Easter nears this month [Lent through eyes of Lds journalist]

Few Mormons wear crosses, depicting their aversion to it. For more on this, see:

* No-Cross Protocol ["New" Mormon tradition]

* Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross [published by Mormon church owned Mormon Times]

[svcw]

Apparently you did not read the study. Oh, well.

[wheatmiller]

After accusing others of “picking and choosing” from the Bible...it is laughable that you do the same with Tertullian...

If you would continue with his theology (or summary of it...)

“The soul was not preexistent...” (Still want to cite him as being “closer to your Christ?)

“The Son is distinct from the Father, and the Spirit from both the Father and the Son (Adv. Praxeam, xxv). “These three are one substance, not one person; and it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ in respect not of the singularity of number but the unity of the substance.”

Fact is, the trinity is one of the many glorys of faith that make Christianity a “walk” not a destination.

[teppe]

Last of all, as I have to go now

I invite all Christians to worship the Resurrected Lord Jesus Christ with us at his Church.

And would encourage you in Christ’s spirit to worhip him and not the implement (cross) of his death that in many ways has become an idol.

[teppe]

Sorry Read “Against Praexeus”.

Everyone knows that the Current Nicene Creed was essentially an Alexandrian creation through Alexander the Bishop of Alexandria and his faithful thug Athenasius.

Everyone also knows that Constantine Dictated parts of the Nicene Creed and that when he finally was baptised he tried to kill it.

Everyone knows that Justin the Apostate ressurected the Nicene Creed from the dustbin of history to destroy Christianity

and everyone knows that Emperor Theodosius instituted the Nicene Creed by the Eddict of Thessalonica which required belief in the Nicene Creed on the pain of Death.

one of the main differences between my Christology and yours, is that mine wasn’t historically established by murder and capital punishment.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

WHOAAAA! We need a qualifed FR EMT here... I’ve arrived...

“I’m a Momon, and I pay very little attention to the Easter Bunny!”

If you are really a Mormon, I expect you to know the correct spelling.

“My devotion is to the living Jesus Christ, my Lord and my Savior, the son of the living God the Father. And my goal is to merit and maintain the Holy Ghost in my heart in worship my Father in Heaven. If that’s not enough for you .... so be it, it is enough for my Savior Jesus Christ.”

1. You left out the created Christ, who atoned by sweating, married, had kids, became a mormonic god... one of a minimum of 4 mormonic earth gods.
2. You have failed at your goal of merit - as has every human who ever lived. This is why we all need the real Biblical Christ who always was God.
3. Holy Spirit - I assume you mean the mormonic Holy Ghost, who was naughty and didn’t get a body???
4. Father in Heaven - I assume you mean the mormonic Father, who was created, used to be a god, has sex in the heavens with Heavenly Mother/s?

“Why would I want to attend another church service and worship a medieval definition of Christ who is ....”

This shows the lack of understanding of Church history, doctrinal history, Biblical teaching and logic. Someone has to say this to you teppe.

“....three in one and one in three but never really one but never really three, whos circumference is everywhere, center is nowhere, so large he fills the universe, so small he dwells in hearts and all the while without body, parts or passions..... (need I go on?)”

That all seems to hard for you to think about. Let me give you one to ponder as a mormon...

How can God be Omnipotent, if there is more than one god?

“Sorry guys, but the truth and work of our Lord Jesus Christ will continue either with or without your support.”

Satan is not easily discouraged. We know this.

[SeaHawkFan]

Mormons can’t promote Easter since they claim Joseph Smith decides who and who does not get into Heaven. That contradicts the Bible; and why would they want to point out that Jesus arose from the grave and Smith did not.

Gee, follow someone who arose from the grave or someone who did not? Not a tough choice for me.

[svcw]

I attended ward for months and months, and never once heard “resurrected Lord Jesus Christ”, and have person experience with lds since 1962, and have never once heard my mormon family say “resurrected Lord Jesus Christ”.
So I have this question for you, what church are you now attending, as it can’t be ward.

[wheatmiller]

I believe it is you that should read the entire work as it Tertullian’s “Defense, in all essential points, the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity”

He is considered the one who advanced the doctrine.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"So in another 180 years we should be somewhere around half a billion!"

Drink hearty my friend!

Here are some tips to get you there faster:

1. Instead of keeping everyone on the rolls (even though dead) until age 100, change the software to extend lifespan to 200 (it's all a lie anyway, why would it matter?)

2. Never let anyone take their name off the roll. That will stop the dramatic attrition.

3. REQUIRE at least 10 kids for a Temple Recommend!

4. Baptize Dead people into full membership! Why fool around. The rest of the temple ceremonies aren't in mormon writings, just make up some new ones!

[greyfoxx39]

why would they want to point out that Jesus arose from the grave and Smith did not.

Give it time....there is still time for the mormon church to proclaim that Smith HAS indeed risen from the dead and the fanatical members will swoon in delight.

That might put a few more posteriors in the pews and coins in the coffers.

Great point, BTW.

[Sergio]

bkmk, forward to friends

[greyfoxx39]

IF "everyone knows", what is stopping you from providing source links for your claims?

Also, your comment "one of the main differences between my Christology and yours, is that mine wasn’t historically established by murder and capital punishment" is a smear that the owner of FR might not want to stand since this is a "pro-Christian" site.

It always boils down to mormons resorting to attacks on fellow FReepers and as a last resort attacking Christianity in defense of their cult.

[Colofornian]

(Teppe, most computers have a refresh button you can click on)

[houeto]

was Tertullian’s Lord Jesus Christ closer to yours or mine? Undoubtedly mine.

In all my years of lurking these threads grey, this is the first bold admission I ever read by a mormon of having a different Jesus. Maybe I just missed it before.

[Colofornian]

Why would I want to attend another church service and worship a medieval definition of Christ who is ....

(Says a Mormon who adheres to both a supposed B.C. "Jesus" from a Book of Mormon, a "jesus" who slaughtered 70-90,000 people upon his death...see 3 Nephi chapters 8 &9)

[Elsie]

I’m a Momon, and I pay very little attention to the Easter Bunny!

Good for you!

You've got your work cut out for you to believe the MORMOn fables!

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The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!

 

 

   

[Elsie]

You've got your work cut out for you to believe the MORMOn fables!

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"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

---

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

---

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

---

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

---

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

---

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

---

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

---

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

And my goal is to merit and maintain the Holy Ghost in my heart in worship my Father in Heaven.

Good luck!!!

[Elsie]

If that’s not enough for you .... so be it, it is enough for my Savior Jesus Christ.

But; is it 'enough' for ol' Joe??

---

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

If that’s not enough for you .... so be it, it is enough for my Savior Jesus Christ.

Sorry, teppe; but I have it on REAL good authority that you are DAMNED!!!

---

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)