I see no way around concluding that anyone who relies on their own personal judgment to interpret Scripture for their self by denying all of what was taught by the Apostles and for the fifteen hundred years up to the Self Alone Rationalization, is placing them self above the Scripture they claim to interpret. Especially when they begin by throwing out a portion of the Bible and only then claim to believe in the Bible. When someone claims their own interpretation of Scripture is inerrant and that everyone from Jesus Christ, through the Apostles, and up to their favorite rationalizer is wrong, they are worshiping their Self as The Word, not Jesus Christ who is the Word. That is following Eve, not following Christ.
There are elements of the Truth outside the Catholic Church, no doubt, and pursuing those portions of the Truth rather than deciding what I wanted to believe and interpreting Scripture to suit my preferences is what led me to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded after being Lutheran most of my life.
It's nice to be ecumenical, but those who obstinately deny the Truth by denying the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and who constantly lie about what the One True Church teaches aren't overlooking something, they're deliberately denying His Word, deliberately telling lies, and deliberately slandering His Church. People who who the Holy Spirit is working on do not resist the Truth when it's explained to them. They pray, open their heart, and at the very least admit that they can see why there is as much reason to accept what the Catholic Church teaches as to accept what they belive contradicts it. They don't lie and slander pretending that lies and slanders are part of spreading His Word.
Making nice with those who lie about and slander the Catholic Church is not ecumenicism towards those who "overlook but simply interpret things differently", it's refusing confront those who are under a powerful delusion. A powerful delusion that blinds them with the glory of their Self and keeps them from seeing how they're being used to attack Christ and Christianity. Their very manner, in fact, slanders all of Christianity and ignoring such folks only leads others to believe there is no answer to the lies and slander and not much reflection of Christ in those who claim to be Christian whatever they claim to believe.
People who lie about the Catholic Church are confronted with the facts, that's not treating them poorly. I'd be treating them very poorly indeed if I left them to stew in their own lies and funky delusional wastes. More importantly, I'd be treating His Word poorly if I constantly threw pearls before such swine rather than obeying Scripture and letting them be anathema after they've been confronted with the Truth. Only the Holy Spirit can lead them away from the broad highway to destruction they're on so I pray for them. I also make it clear to them they're heading towards hearing, "I never knew you" from the very same Jesus Christ they in essence call a liar.
Such folks are not just slandering the Catholic Church, they're slandering all of Christianity and Christ Himself.
They pretend to "only" be attacking the Catholic Church but if the Catholic Church has for two thousand years been wrong about how to interpret Scripture and wrong about the canon, then there's no real reason to believe that the Luther Subset of the Bible is the inspired Word of God, either. Especially since Luther also wanted to throw out the parts of the New Testament he found it difficult to argue his way around. Disagreeing with an interpretation or doctrine is one thing, slandering His Word, His Church, and Christ Himself, is another matter.
I'm sorry, but I don't see it the way you do. I don't know of any nice way to point out that someone is denying what His Word says, refusing to accept a portion of the Bible, essentially calling Jesus Christ a liar by denying what Christ Himself clearly said, and repeating slanderous lies that have been shown to be lies over and over for five centuries since they were first spun out of thin air.
Look at CCC 1753 & 1754 then tell me that a desire to be ecumenical is a reasonable response to lies about His Bride and His Word. I see no way around confronting lies and no way around pointing out a situation where someone is denying Christ while pretending to be Christian. Doing that is claiming that the ends, being nice and ecumenical, justifies means that include silently ignoring lies and slanders against Christ and His Bride. The angel Michael didn't say, "I beg to differ", he confronted Lucifer by saying, "who is like God".
I feel sure Jesus Christ expects to likewise be confrontational when someone is deliberately slandering His Bride.
Regards
I admire the spirit behind your approach, PP, and generally agree that we should strive to be kind, smiling evangelists in the mold of John Paul II (NYer comes to mind - a wonderful ambassador of the Church!) Considering the vitriol and outright disrespect that Catholic Christians are afforded by many on this forum, hijacking our threads and forcing their twisted, tortured personal interpretations of our beliefs into the discussion...well, let’s just say that I think Rashputin hit the nail squarely on the head.
Thank you both for your comments.
I see no way around concluding that anyone who relies on their own personal judgment to interpret Scripture for their self .... is placing them self above the Scripture
I don't see this as self-worship but as a matter of usurpation of authority. I see it as claiming for self the authority we as Catholics ascribe to the papacy and magisterium. That's not the same thing as self-worship from my perspective.
they are worshiping their Self as The Word, not Jesus Christ who is the Word.
When I was Protestant I did not see it this way. Nor do I now although I respect your right to your own views. My situation was worse than you describe. I worshiped a god of my own creation not myself. I adhered to the scripture passages and bits of theology that suited me. I don't think that's self-worship but idolatry because I had a god of my own making.
There are elements of the Truth outside the Catholic Church, no doubt, and pursuing those portions of the Truth rather than deciding what I wanted to believe and interpreting Scripture to suit my preferences is what led me to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded after being Lutheran most of my life.
I didn't know you were a convert too. My situation sounds similar but I'm guessing I was a lot more stubborn than you :) I agree with you that Catholicism is scriptural. And I love how it ties the OT and New together so well.
It's nice to be ecumenical, but those who obstinately deny the Truth by denying the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and who constantly lie about what the One True Church teaches aren't overlooking something, they're deliberately denying His Word, deliberately telling lies, and deliberately slandering His Church.
There's a difference between deliberately lying about Catholic teaching and sincerely believing something different than Catholic teaching. It's broad characterizations that I object to.
People who who the Holy Spirit is working on do not resist the Truth when it's explained to them.
I did.
They pray, open their heart, and at the very least admit that they can see why there is as much reason to accept what the Catholic Church teaches as to accept what they belive contradicts it.
Getting to this stage can be long and difficult. It was for me anyway. I don't presume to know how the Holy Spirit is working in someone else's life. Nor am I bold enough to claim I know how he should be.
They don't lie and slander pretending that lies and slanders are part of spreading His Word.
Here I agree with you that these aren't works of the Holy Spirit. Once someone has been given an accurate description of Catholic teaching and continues to misrepresent it in comments, this is another matter, yes. Scripture tells us that we will be held accountable for our words. And that accountability will be to God, not me. Likewise, I am accountable if I slander them, am I not?
Making nice with those who lie about and slander the Catholic Church is ... refusing confront those who are under a powerful delusion.
Does confrontation of falsehood necessarily have to be done uncharitably?
Their very manner, in fact, slanders all of Christianity and ignoring such folks only leads others to believe there is no answer to the lies and slander ....
I don't worry too much if someone slanders me. It's Christ who lives in me. He can fight his battles :) IMHO speaking the truth to someone in courteous fashion isn't ignoring them. I don't know about you, but when someone insults me, they've pretty much lost the argument as far as I'm concerned. I'm not inclined to view their comment as reflective of the Spirit if there's not much fruit of the Spirit in it. Some may be called to harsh confrontation. I'm not. You must do as the Spirit bids you.
People who lie about the Catholic Church are confronted with the facts, that's not treating them poorly.
Did I say that speaking the truth is poor treatment? I consider false accusations and unnecessarily harshness as poor treatment.
I'd be treating them very poorly indeed if I left them to stew in their own lies and funky delusional wastes.
Is it up to you where people stew, or do they choose this for themselves? You can speak the truth but you can't control what another does with it, can you? The only part IMHO that you get to control is whether you attract or repel.
I'm sorry, but I don't see it the way you do.
No need to apologize. Your style and my style are different. My point was that the catechism calls us to see our separated brethren as Christians. And I don't buy your self-worship perspective although I respect your right to your own views. My own experience probably biases my view. Had you accused me of self-worship you'd have been off the mark. Had you accused me of idolatry you'd have been correct but ineffective in attracting me toward Catholicism.
Look at CCC 1753 & 1754 then tell me that a desire to be ecumenical is a reasonable response to lies
I don't see anything there that requires me to be harsh or unnecessarily accusatory.
I feel sure Jesus Christ expects to likewise be confrontational when someone is deliberately slandering His Bride.
I'll leave what Jesus does up to him. I'm more concerned that he doesn't find me deliberately slandering any of his children. Peace be with you.