Skip to comments.[November 1985] The Only True Church
Posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
Surely we must appear at times to be very amateurish when compared to the professional clergy of other churches.
One doctrine presents a particular challenge. It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is...the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth. (D&C 1:30)
This doctrine often generates resistance and repels the casual investigator.
Some have said, We want nothing to do with anyone who makes so presumptuous a claim as that.
The early Latter-day Saints were...the butt of many clever stories. We, of course, are not free from that today.
Should we not then make one accommodation and set this doctrine aside?
It is little wonder that our missionaries are sometimes thought to be overbearing...
Inevitably...the true church doctrine emerges very early in any serious discussion of the gospel, for there is no better place to start such a discussion than with the First Vision...
Joseph Smith sought answer to the question which of all the sects was right and which should [he] join? (JSH 1:18.)...
...In response to his humble prayer, the Father and the Son appeared to him. When he gained possession of himself so as to be able to speak, he asked which of all the sects was right, that [he] might know which to join. (JSH 1:18.)
He recorded this:
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt...'
He again forbade me to join with any of them. (JSH 1:1920.)
That is very blunt language...
If ever he was tempted to disregard those words, they were repeated and sustained in subsequent revelations...
(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...
It's a similar message -- but distinct -- to what he gave at the 1971 October General Conference...threaded @ FR here: The Only True and Living Church [Lds intolerantly claim in '71 to be ONLY face-of-earth true church]
From the message/piece: It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is...the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth. (D&C 1:30) This doctrine often generates resistance and repels the casual investigator. Some have said, We want nothing to do with anyone who makes so presumptuous a claim as that. The early Latter-day Saints were...the butt of many clever stories. We, of course, are not free from that today...It is little wonder that our missionaries are sometimes thought to be overbearing...
Of course, no such wording is found in Lds "scriptures" of the First Vision in the Pearl of Great Price. Allow us to review that chapter of Mormon scripture, shall we?
What do we find, description-wise?
Saw a pillar of light
two Personages brightness & glory defy all description
a son of the other
v. 18: the Personages
v. 19 the Personage
v. 20: the light
v. 24 a light heard a voice
v. 25 a light two Personages
You'll notice that unnamed "Personages" do not = "the Father and the Son" (as in God the Father, and Jesus Christ)
If they were ALL wrong, why did Joseph Smith take ensuing membership class instruction at the local Methodist church in the 1820s???
Notice the "absolutes" Joseph used: NONE/ALL/ALL/ALL/ANY -- in terms of describing the Christian churches of his day, ALL of the Christian creeds, and ALL of the Christian professing believers.
Challenge to Mormons: What is so objectionable about the Apostolic Creed? (Keep in mind the word "catholic" in that creed at the time simply meant "universal")
Snapshot of Joseph Smiths Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
|...which of all the sects was right must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG those professors were ALL CORRUPT ||Joseph Smith History vv. 18-19. Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price|
|...which of all the sects was right ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN ||Joseph Smith History vv. 18-19. Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price|
|Mormon church the only Christ-sanctioned church on earth: the foundation of this [Mormon] church the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth [Obvious scorched earth implication: All other churches are false and dead]||Lds scripture Doctrines & Covenants 1:30|
|Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness."||Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not scripture but still publicly spoken by the Mormon living prophet and published by a later Mormon living prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith via a publisher owned by the Mormon church Deseret News Press, 1938]|
|In 1952 the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized [four topics, one of them being] THE APOSTASY and Restoration [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as apostates (100% AWOL)]||Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996|
I’ve always thought it preposterous that any church would NOT claim to be the only church that teaches the whole truth.
“Ive always thought it preposterous that any church would NOT claim to be the only church that teaches the whole truth.”
Christian churches which affirm all the essentials, albeit differing with names like Baptists or some other congregation, ought not do it.
The LDS, however, commonly seeks to be numbered with Baptists and Lutherans as fellow Christians. They are, in fact, an entirely different religion, and rival to us. Thus it is necessary to expose how the LDS really feels about Christianity, so that when they come for to tell us that they are our brothers, we can make it clear from the scriptures and from their own theology that Christ is their religion’s bitter enemy.
Well, that's interesting...kinda of an indirect slam versus Jesus Christ, eh?
(I'm referencing, when I say that, Jesus' words found in John 10:16: 16 I have OTHER sheep that are NOT of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.)
My personal objection to Mormonism, is that they're so stale and plastic. Mormons are like the people of Pleasantville before they get "colorized". They're nice, polite, hard-working, but have no soul.
hum? It is Christ that is the eternal.
Churches/denominations may disagree around the edges, it is the eternal Christ that is the only Truth, it is the Body of Christ that is the church.
As St. Joan of Arc said at her trial: “The Church is Christ, and Christ is the Church.”
Any church that does not claim to be Christ, and to teach everything that Christ wants taught, is just a human club.
The only Church I want to belong to is the Church Jesus was talking about when He said, “I am the Vine, and you are the branches.”
I do not disagree, I was thinking more of items like “going to the movies” or “a drink with dinner” or “swimming with boys and girls” or “dances”...things like that.
(Yeah, but when the branches pretend that they are the "only branches" on the face of the whole earth...and there aren't a whole lot of "branches" in black Africa...then that becomes a bit of a problem)
If “all their creeds are an abomination” then why do the LDS share so many ‘creeds’ with other churches? Like:
Baptism, communion, marriage, tithing, Sunday worship, observance of Christmas and Easter, prayer, singing of praises, etc? What exactly is so ‘wrong’ with these things that the Lord Himself supposedly told Smith that they were wrong? And why did not they get corrected? When I was LDS I listened to the same “only correct and true Church” so now the LDS want to be accepted as “just another Christian faith”.
The “branches” are not churches. The branches are people. The Vine (Christ) is the Church. And as there is only one Christ, there is only one Church.
That's fine. We're on the same page there (Greek ecclesia = "called-out ONES" ... flesh & blood...not brick & mortar or hierarchical bureaucracies)
If you re-read the Mormon "first vision" it proclaimed that ALL (as in 100%) of the professing believers at the time of Joseph Smith's pronouncement were "corrupt"...
Yeah, we're all sinners...but Smith practiced a "scorched earth" policy in order to try to make the need for a "from scratch" need for an entirely new church.
Gee, that was fun. Sort of like dancing the Conga when you type it.
Recently in the news, a Florida college instructor directed his students to step on a sheet of paper, with “Jesus” written on it.
One student refused, a devout Mormon.
Not this Horse Shiite again.
It was that arrogant statement of superiority and exclusiveness that gotmme to investigate LDS, whereupon I learned we are not of the same faith in any way, shape, form or fashion.
Oh! A friend extolled to me, today, the wonders of a certain Scott Wolton.
They went on and on about his pedigree and that stoopit Bat Stone.
Apparently he is now peddling his wares on the history channel.
I didn’t have the heart to illuminate them on his fraud and ruin their day.
I did leave a hint so they could discover it for themselves.
Stepford wife syndrome. Complete with addiction to happy pills as they are tormented by never really feeling “worthy and well qualified” as they work mightily to prove as much for their temple recommend.
Sounds like one of those monotheistic belief systems. The upstart and intolerant newcomers. Polytheists and pantheists are not impressed.
I know my denomination isn’t perfect nor do we claim it, it is much like the Christians who fill it - strivers of perfection, to be like Jesus Who was and is Perfection.
Do the LDS claim perfection? If so, they must be the only church that does so. That is arrogant, prideful, sinful and wrong.
From personal observation, LDS is among the least “correct”, ranking right up there with the muzzies. The LDS may not be trying to kill us but to listen to their clap trap is to jeopardize one’s soul, all the Muzzies can do is kill my old worn out anyway body.
“One student refused, a devout Mormon.”
A step up from the football playing Mormon, who invented a dead girlfriend; and Mitt Romney, who invented an entire persona; and Joseph Smith, who was a pathological liar with 30 wives, 12 of whom still married to other men, and some as young as 14 years old.
One hopes he’ll convert to Christianity in the future, so his sins are washed clean, so he won’t be numbered with those evildoers.
“Christ is their religions bitter enemy.”
You mean like this:
LDS Children’s Song Book “I’m Trying to be like Jesus” =
I’m trying to be like Jesus;
I’m following in his ways.
I’m trying to love as he did,
In all that I do and say.
At times I’m tempted to make a wrong choice,
But I try to listen as the still small voice whispers,
“Love one another as Jesus loves you.
Try to show kindness in all that you do.
Be gentle and loving in deed and in thought,
For these are the things Jesus taught.”
I’m trying to love my neighbor;
I’m learning to serve my friends.
I watch for the day of gladness when Jesus will come again.
I try to remember the lessons he taught.
Then the Holy Spirit enters into my thoughts, saying:
“Love one another as Jesus loves you.
Try to show kindness in all that you do.
Be gentle and loving in deed and in thought,
For these are the things Jesus taught.”
Good advice: “Try to show kindness in all that you do.”
“You mean like this:”
I mean like this:
1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.
3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.
Text: William W. Phelps, 1792-1872
And a thousand other injuries and insults your religion rains down upon Christ, and then, hypocritically, claim that your religion is about Christ.
What do you have to do with Christ, when your religion is henotheistic (polytheistic with a focus on a central deity), and the Bible preaches only monotheism?
What do you know of Christ, when you think that by your works you will be saved, when we know it is by the grace of God, unmoved by mortal hands?
It would be nice if you would answer these questions.
Mormonism is not Christianity, and no Christian shall be fooled to believe otherwise.
In addition to the good question you were just asked...
please answer this:
If God is omnipotent, how can there be more than one god?
disrespectful and pathetic....at best
“disrespectful and pathetic....at best”
Honest and mournful... it is.
okay; opinionated, disrespectful, pathetic and asinine...you win!
“okay; opinionated, disrespectful, pathetic and asinine...you win!”
You described your meaningless post well. You lost!
Re: your last statement ... prove it...tis itself inuendo & a smear minus any proof!
“My posts are all accusations, smears, inuendo, distortions and outright fabrications.”
Fixed your post for you, Teppe. Except it still isn’t accurate. You don’t even bother to distort or fabricate anything. You just accuse and smear, technically.
“The book is very objective in shining a light on all of the data in existence, and demonstrates that your smears are ill founded.”
www.biblegateway.com This book is very objective in shining a light on all of the data in existence, and demonstrates that your Mormon religion is ill founded.
“.... your obviously much to interested in smears, inuendo, distortion and outright fabrications.”
Do you have a parrot you are trying to teach? Well, I guess only if you say it out loud too.
describe which of my adjectives describing your disgusting post was wrong, and why????
can't do it can you???
Poly(theism) wanna cracker?
“can’t do it can you???”
I can do it easily. But why would I bother? You think an irrelevant post about a good-deed of a Mormon, somehow vindicates a religion that denies Christ, and yet, despite your own logic, will not hold to the crimes of two other Mormons to damn it. And then you spam away, telling me I am disrespectful, and my post disgusting, and wrong, when your thoughts are all jumbled up.
The inventing a dead girlfriend, for sure!
Romney inventing an entire [faux conservative] persona,...ehh so what? He's completely out of the loop politically now.
You don't often find Catholics turning to the LDS belief system here at FR. Lots of times in the real world though, as the Mormons are hell bent to proselytize Catholics around the world.
Especially in countries like Chile, where MANY lapsed Catholics have become Mormons.
(Guess that's not of much interest to posters like Terycarl, eh?)
anyone who claims to be a "Christian" and who refuses to accept Catholicism is a little suspect....while Lutherans, Methodists, Presbeterians, etc etc are more in line with true christianity and the Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian scientists, mormans are further from the mainstream, in effect, what's the difference??? Unless you are FULLY CHRISTIAN, you aren't.
So are protestants...have been since the 1600's, didn't work well then, still doesn't....when I defend a particular morman person, Romney for example....a great American, successful businesman, respectable human being.I certainly don't expect condemnation from my underlings....and as far as the Notre Dame kid is concerned....he is off limits...he is a kid, he doesn't even know who he is at this time.....in about one year, he'll make more money than all of us combined....maybe he'll wake up by then.
“So are protestants...have been since the 1600’s, didn’t work well then, still doesn’t....when I defend a particular morman person, Romney for example....a great American, successful businesman, respectable human being.I certainly don’t expect condemnation from my underlings....and as far as the Notre Dame kid is concerned....he is off limits...he is a kid, he doesn’t even know who he is at this time.....in about one year, he’ll make more money than all of us combined....maybe he’ll wake up by then.”
Interesting you take more offense with me bashing Romney as an example of a deceptive Mormon than you do with Mormonism which bashes Christ and makes out of Him a created being that does not save, nor does anything except gratify the vanity of twisted prophets which call your church the Whore of Babylon.
And then, after making nonsensical posts to defend the LDS, you damn Protestants as being as unChristian as the LDS.
Not that I’m all that concerned. I don’t have flattering opinions of the Catholic Church either. It’s just that the opinions you hold are far from consistent.
Like many of the LDS faith, having faith while unaware of what his religion claims. Give me devout LDS for neighbors anytime rather than Muslims or unbelievers.
Oh, of course...In 1299 Pope Boniface VIII edicted: "It is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." [Source: Kenneth Scott Latourette, A History of Christianity, Harper, 1953, p. 487]
Mormons have their "nobody gets saved" minus the "consent " of Joseph Smith; and some Catholics -- apparently ones like you -- have their "nobody gets saved" minus bowing down to the Pope.
Their website and books have led many out of the darkness of Mormanism.
I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from himthat are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to theChristian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.And so, and so in that sense I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with I've been invitedto the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
13. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
It appears that EXPERIENCES can be deceiving...
If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.
If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.