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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVMSw0Ospe0 ^ | 3-24-2013 | bluecollarman

[bluecollarman]

Using secular songs to deliver Christian messages. How do you feel about using country songs and changing the lyrics to deliver a gospel message? I don't have a good grasp of it. I felt lead to write these lyrics and sing this song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVMSw0Ospe0

[George Varnum]

Have you checked your hymn books for “meter” or a metrical index in the back? Some of them might still have them.

Do any churches use hymnals any more, or do they all sing off the wall (overhead projector) now?

If you were going to look for a tune for this old one (Meter = syllables per line):

When I come to the river 7
at the ending of day 6
When the last winds of sorrow have blown 9
There’ll be somebody waiting 7
to show me the way 5
I won’t have to cross Jordan alone 9

I won’t have to cross Jordan alone
On my way to my heavenly home
When the darkness I see, they’ll be waiting for me
And I won’t have to cross Jordan alone

Many times I am lonely and I’ve often been sad
With a heart that is heavy as stone
But there’s one thing that cheers me and makes my heart glad
I won’t have to cross Jordan alone.

That might be what they call “Irregular meter” and tough to match up with an existing tune other than the one written for it.

As I was learning about all this on the Mudcat forum
http://www.mudcat.org/
here is what one of the resident experts said:

” The “7s and 8s” (etc.) refer to the number of syllables in each line of the hymn.

CM, LM & SM are just shorthand ways of saying some of the more common ones.

“D” means double (i.e repeat everything).

So 8.7.8.7D would be an eight line verse with alternate lines of 8 and 7 syllables. “While Shepherds Watched” would be 8.6.8.6 (which is probably CM or SM).

Note that the tunes may contain more (or occasionally fewer) notes than there are syllables in the poem - “Alleluia” is only four syllables, but can be many more notes than that.”

And another added:

“This is your clue for what tunes to try with what words.

Many hymnals have a meter index, probably a vestige of when more text/tune switching was done.

CM=Common Meter=8,6,8,6 (Amazing Grace, While Shepherds, Gilligan’s Island, Dundee-a tune used multiple times in most hymnals)

LM=Long Meter=8,8,8,8 (Praise God From Whom all blessings flow,I know that my Redeemer lives, Old Hundred)

SM=Short Meter=6,6,8,8(I love thy kingdom, Lord; St. Thomas)

PM=Particular (or Peculiar) Meter. A rare meter or one open to different interpretations.

The expectation is a 4 line hymn, so “7’s & 8’s” is short for 7,8,7,8. “11’s’ is 4 lines of 11 each.
“ 7’s double” is 8 lines of 7. “

Sounds pretty complicated, but it comes in handy if you want to play around with switching lyrics and melodies around just for fun, or if you want to put a poem to music. That’s the way they used to do it.

[Diapason]

“SM=Short Meter=6,6,8,8”

No, short meter is 6686.

I’m an organist in the Church of England in South Africa - not to be confused with the CoE in England and the American Episcopalian churches which seem by and large to be apostate. We separated from that in the 1800s.

We have a 8:00am traditional Prayer Book service followed by a later more contemporary service. There is someone, usually aside from the pastor, who leads the service and chooses the hymns having been acquainted with the subject of the service, readings, etc. One of the older leaders has made the comment that in our early services we probably have a wider repertoire than the later services because of the regular meters. One can choose many hymns with unfamiliar, but appropriate, words because we can usually find a tune that fits. In fact, I always advise new service leaders, many of whom are graduates of our theological college but who did not grow up with hymns, to choose their hymns based on the words, and to let me sort out the tunes. Even the young ones are expected to be able to lead a traditional service as well as the more contemporary version. They serve the entire congregation, not just those who attend a particular service.

All decent hymn books have lists of tunes by meter and by name.

[George Varnum]

Thanks for the correction. Since I essentially pasted in what the chap on Mudcat posted back in April of 02 and he obviously knew a lot more about it than I do, I suspect it was a typo.

Noted correction in my archives for future reference.

I’m glad that the old tradition lives on in So. Africa, as it probably still does in at least a few places here in the Colonies.

We have a few traditional “Shape Note” singing groups around, and I think most of them are familiar with meters.

Example: “Morning Star”

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/UncleJaque/MUSIC/Morning_Star.gif

...in which the melody line is written in shape notes while harmony / accompaniment in standard notation.
Are you familiar with it?

All shape notes from 1853 - one of my favorites: “Delight”
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/UncleJaque/media/MUSIC/GOSPEL/DelightSoHarmny1853SN_1.gif.html

Bet it would sound nice on your organ. Wonder what our Country Western Singer could do with it?
I always thought it needed soft percussion - like kettle drums behind it. Excellent hammer dulcimer piece.

Shape note singing was quite popular in America from about the 1830s through the early 20th Century, and used a lot in the Churches.

Are you familiar with “Scottish” / Solfa notation?
That’s pretty interesting (I never did figure it out):

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/UncleJaque/media/MUSIC/Banks_of_Allan_Water_solfa.bmp.html