Posted on 03/26/2013 6:56:09 AM PDT by NYer
Neither does Satan.
Your answer then is ‘void of reason’ when you say simply that ...”God Instills in each of us what He requires. No point of reference is required.”
What then do you base your moral decisions on? What foundation and test do you give to know if or not they are God’s standards?
The question isn’t proof , it’s what standard do you use to measure if what you believe is true or not?
Everyone has the right to certainly believe what they want, but not everything one believes is right as you know. Therefore their needs to be a standard of measure to determine if those moral beliefs are indeed from God’s point of view. ...so how do you ‘know’ what you’ve determined is right or not?
It’s a good question, stuartcr. I want to come back to this thread tomorrow to see wha folks are saying about it.
So its void of reason to you, ok. I dont test or measure my moral decisions
If it has anything to do with any of my answers, you’ll probably find most don’t think well of them.
If it has anything to do with any of my answers, you’ll probably find most don’t think well of them.
islam’s “god” is satan.
That about covers it...Perhaps the pope and millions of Catholics feel just as comfortable praying to Allah, the black moon rock god...
They do not, however, believe that Jesus is the son of God. They believe that He was, like Adam, directly created by God --- in the virgin Maryam's womb.
They also believe tht Jesus will come again at the end of the world to judge the living and the dead.
Then how do you know if they are right or wrong from Gods viewpoint? or for that matter accountability?
Geez man, what is going on in your head? What kind of moral decisions do you ponder over, that makes you need to know if they are right or wrong? Don’t you have a conscience?
I have never, in my 62+yrs, ever done something that I had to actually ask myself if it was morally right or wrong. I really don’t think I’m alone in this either.
I told you a number of times that I believe our moral code is instilled in us by God when He creates us. To me, that means that what I do, is ok in my eyes and in God’s eyes.
I’m accountable for all my actions here on earth, but I’ve never done anything that led me to believe that I would get in trouble with God.
Why do you think I’m so thankful to God all the time?
I’m just thinking it’s a waste of time to try to convince someone that God is an “objective reality” (your term in post $#20) if they do not believe in objective truth to be begin with... that’s all. That’s why I keep asking if you believe ANYTHING is objectively true. We’ve gotten way off track on this thread and my apologies to NYer.
Actually, as you’ve read, it was #18s term, I was asking about it.
I suspect you're also interested in (if not entirely pleased with) "Dominus Iesus" ("Jesus is Lord"), issued by the CDF with Pope John Paul II's approbation in 2000, over the signture of Joseph Ratzinger, principal author.
It was particularly nifty because it offended everyone: polytheists (because it said there is only one God), Jews and Muslims (because it said Jesus is Lord), Protestants (because it said there is only one Church), and Catholic theologians (because it said there is only one Pope--- whoops, no, that was only strongly implied!)
It kicked over the whole Can 'o' WormsTM (not to be confused with Diet of WormsTM) concerning ecumenism, won't you be my buddy, the long-leash-short-whip policy which had led to a shrinkage of evangelization and a logorrhea of dialog.
The tugging and pulling is still in progress.
Don't be expecting any anathema or excommunication of Muslims, since they are not baptized persons and thus are not in any way ecclesiastical subjects of the Pope. You can't divorce somebody you were never married to; you can't excommunicate someone you were never in communion with.
(This is so galling to lesbians, who, being denied the right to marry, now demand the right to divorce!! --- but I digress.)
The question being volleyed about concerning the Muslims is, what is the best way to carry out the Great Commission? Do you have to be on speaking terms with people to evangelize them? Etc.etc.
We don't know how far Francis wishes to emulate hois namesake, but he may have his mission to the Muslims in mind, as the following (Source) illustrates:
Want to come along for the ride?
Francis saw the crusade first of all as a chance for martyrdom: and in martyrdom the highest and purest form of Christian witness. In June 1219 Francis embarked for the East and reached Damietta, where he had a peaceful meeting with Sultan Malek Kemel. After returning home he summarised his missionary experience :
"The Lord says: 'I send you as sheep among wolves. Be prudent as serpents and simple as doves'. Therefore friars who are divinely inspired to go among the Saracens and other infidels, may go with the permission of their minister and servant ...
"Friars who go among the infidels may behave spiritually in their midst in two manners.
"One manner is that they shall avoid any argument or dispute and be subject to every human creature for love of God and they shall confess they are Christians.
"The other manner is, when they see it is pleasing to the Lord, they shall announce the word of God that they (infidels) may believe in God the almighty Father and Son and Holy Spirit, creator of all things, and in the Son redeemer and saviour, and that they may be baptised and become Christians, because unless a man is born again of water and the Holy Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
However,... ...”Conscience points towards a standard,conscious is not the standard”......... we might be able to determine that wrong has been done,.... but then how do we define that wrong? .........If there isn't a standard or reference we have nothing to truly measure by except ‘opinion’.
additionally... conscience is not ‘the source’ of revelation ‘about’ right and wrong... It does not teach us moral or ethical ideals, rather to hold us accountable to the highest standards of right and wrong we know............. the conscience can only react to what it knows and what it has been taught.
If one has been taught that the the Bible is God’s word to mankind and that it is the supreme standard for right and wrong, the conscience will react when there is any deviation from those teachings...... If ‘the conscience’ is taught that Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism, is ‘the truth’... it will react when those standards are about to be violated..... If the conscience is taught that cursing, drinking and wicked living are right, the conscience will have no problem with those things.
J. Oswald Sanders said this concerning the conscience:
“Every conscience needs instruction... Its delicate mechanism has been thrown off balance by the fall..... Just as a bullet will reach the bull’eye only if the two sights are in correct alignment, so correct moral judgments are delivered ‘only’ when the conscience is correctly aligned with the Scriptures.”
...The conscience does not determine whether something is moral, what it does do is “apply” moral truth.... if it is to be reliable it must make judgments consistent with objective moral truth.... If it does not, then that conscience is in error and is not to be trusted. (notes I took from a study on the conscious)
Yes, you used the term “objective reality” in your response-question which I assume was a legitimate question with meaning. I see no difference between “objective reality” and “objective truth.” So, I still do not know the answer: “Do you believe in objective reality OR, if you prefer, objective truth?”
He moves the goalposts, and the discussion, around so much you cannot get him to come out and admit what he does actually believe--if anything.
Multiple FReepers have tried. But he steadfastly refuses to be adult about any of the conversations he's involved in.
For me, the conscience is the source for right or wrong.
Well, if you would define either of those, then I may be able to answer your question.
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