Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery'

telegraph.co.uk ^ | March 28, 2013 | Nick Squires

[ilovesarah2012]

Experiments conducted by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy have dated the shroud to ancient times, a few centuries before and after the life of Christ.

Many Catholics believe that the 14ft-long linen cloth, which bears the imprint of the face and body of a bearded man, was used to bury Christ's body when he was lifted down from the cross after being crucified 2,000 years ago.

The analysis is published in a new book, "Il Mistero della Sindone" or The Mystery of the Shroud, by Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University, and Saverio Gaeta, a journalist.

The tests will revive the debate about the true origins of one of Christianity's most prized but mysterious relics and are likely to be hotly contested by sceptics.

[Red Badger]

It either is or it ain’t. It makes no difference one way or another...........

[Joe 6-pack]

"The tests will revive the debate about the true origins of one of Christianity's most prized but mysterious relics and are likely to be hotly contested by sceptics."

The sceptics sure do love their science except when the scientific conclusions conflict with their, um....beliefs.

[UCANSEE2]

That a burial cloth over 2000 years old survived this long is pretty amazing.

[cuban leaf]

That a burial cloth over 2000 years old survived this long is pretty amazing.

---

Yes. Yes it is. ;-)

[Revolting cat!]

That a burial cloth over 2000 years old survived this long is pretty amazing.

I can only hope that mine does the same!

[cuban leaf]

I’m completely neutral on this thing from a scientific standpoint. I apply occam’s razor until scientific evidence allows me to make a more “informed” decision.

But so far I have no reason to believe what it is claimed to be. My faith would not be shaken in the least if this turned out to be real or fake. It’s really pretty irrelevant. I’ll say this though, if this turns out to be real, its existence does not align too well with my perception of the character of God. It’s one of the reasons I’ll need hard evidence to be convinced.

[Red Badger]

Properly stored and taken care of, it should last indefinitely. Isn’t it stored in a pure dry nitrogen atmosphere?..........

[FourtySeven]

This is an interesting portion of the article:

For the first time, an app has been created to enable people to explore the holy relic in detail on their smart phones and tablets.

The app, sanctioned by the Catholic Church and called "Shroud 2.0", features high definition photographs of the cloth and enables users to see details that would otherwise be invisible to the naked eye.

"For the first time in history the most detailed image of the shroud ever achieved becomes available to the whole world, thanks to a streaming system which allows a close-up view of the cloth. Each detail of the cloth can be magnified and visualised in a way which would otherwise not be possible," Haltadefinizione, the makers of the app, said.

[Red Badger]

I would think that venerating a cloth with an image upon it would be in direct conflict with the Ten Commandments.........

[cuban leaf]

I would think that venerating a cloth with an image upon it would be in direct conflict with the Ten Commandments.........

---

Zactly.

[The Great RJ]

If the shroud is a Medieval forgery how was it made? In those less educated and sophisticated times there would have been no need to create an image that defies explanation even by 21st century technology. Research over the last two decades have conclusively determined the image was not painted... the most likely explanation for a 13th century forgery. Other explanations including some type of photographic image technique or chemical process while plausible by 21st century understanding would likely have been inconceivable at the time the forgery was said to have been made. The anatomical features of the image also contain details that some Medieval forger would not likely have known.

What this image is and how it was made are a mystery, but to attribute it to being a Medieval forgery is too simple an explanation for what is seen on the shroud. Bogus religious relics were commonly made during the Medieval period. While some surviving examples of these relics were very cleverly done, none show anything like the sophisticated image on the shroud and are easily seen as frauds with modern analysis. No forged relic at that time would have needed to be that good to accomplish what the makers intended...making money from a gullible populous.

[Boogieman]

“My faith would not be shaken in the least if this turned out to be real or fake.”

I agree, I don’t put my faith in a piece of cloth, so if it was shown to be a fake, it won’t affect my faith in Jesus. However, I do think the evidence tends to point more to it being authentic than to it being a fake.

“I’ll say this though, if this turns out to be real, its existence does not align too well with my perception of the character of God. It’s one of the reasons I’ll need hard evidence to be convinced.”

I’m curious... what about it doesn’t align well?

[Jack of all Trades]

IR and Raman spectroscopy are applicable for determining the composition of a sample. There are some recent articles on using it in forensic analysis to determine the age of recent materials in terms of hours or days when a good reference is used. I haven’t found anything that describes its usefulness in dating anthropological samples.

Some guy with a title used a gizmo to come up with a number that will sell some books.

[ilovesarah2012]

I think it’s Jesus.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

There is HUGE significance to all of this. Of course among those of us who already believe, this changes nothing. What this does do is bridge the gap that often exists between history and theology and yes even science.

Most of the ancient religions such as the ancient Roman, Greek, and Egyptian religions were based upon myths, supersticians, and a multitude of gods.

Judaism was the first religion to arise based on the belief in one God and historical events. Many atheists and agnostics dismiss the Bible as basically a collection of fairy tales and myths.

The correct dating of the Shroud of Turin, along with the crucifixtion wounds on it which conform exactly and precisely to Gospel accounts, along with other recent developments such as the sightings of Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat along with other archaelogical discoveries prove conclusively to me that Christianity and Judaism are historical faiths based upon real people and real events which factually occurred. This, IMHO, is the significance of the story above. IT HAPPENED!!!!!!

Happy Easter to all!!!!

[ilovesarah2012]

I agree.

Happy Easter. He is risen.

[plain talk]

Well said. That’s where I’m at. It is a given that no christian relies on a relic for their faith. We shouldn’t have to keep saying that. I have always thought the odds were high that this is the real deal. The carbon dating was troublesome though

My question is whether these new tests are more or less accurate than the carbon dating. I have trouble reconciling these diferent test methods.

[married21]

Sure. People who worship a cloth violate the First Commandment.

However, how many people do you realistically think are making that kind of mistake? Really?

Nobody asks it to cure their cancer or find them a job. It’s not a magic item. People get that.

If authentic, it’s a sign, one among many in this world, that God loves us and wants us to find Him. If not, it’s an old cloth that reminds us merely of our searching, not our destination... interesting historically, but not helpful spiritually.

[bubbacluck]

I wonder, if the original cross was found; there would be blood on it. It would be the blood of Jesus the Messiah.

What would the dna look like?