Posted on 03/28/2013 1:47:41 PM PDT by FoxPro
In ancient Israel, including during the first century A.D., preparations for the Pesach or Passover feast took place on “Preparation Day.” In the middle of the afternoon (that is, at beyn ha’arbayim, often referred to as “twilight”) on that day, the Passover lamb was sacrificed at the temple in Jerusalem. After sunset, when Preparation Day had ended and the Feast of Unleavened Bread had begun, the lamb and other specific foods for the Pesach feast were eaten.
Jesus was crucified and died on Preparation Day. Traditionally, this has been thought to have been on a Friday. I would like to demonstrate that Jesus’ crucifixion and death occurred not on a Friday (the sixth day of the week), as has been traditionally accepted, but rather on the previous day, Thursday (the fifth day of the week).
(Excerpt) Read more at tedmontgomery.com ...
My PERSONAL views????
Here's what Jesus HIMSELF SAID was the ONLY sign of His messiahship FROM THE SCRIPTURES in Matthew 12:40:
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." - MT 12:40
That's not my PERSONAL VIEW - that is WHAT JESUS SAID.
So either Jesus is a liar or your tradition is. We worship a false messiah if He indeed died on a Friday afternoon at 3 and was Resurrected on Sunday morning at dawn. Such is the truth - whether you want to sneer at it or not.
By the way - Atheists and secularists have a field day wiping the floor with Christians who use traditions contrary to scripture to justify their faith.
Why do the Scriptures say in ten places that He rises on the third day?
What authority do you have to claim that one verse overrules ten others?
Are we to accept the whole Scripture, or just INVAR's favorite verse?
I guess Jesus’ word “AFTER” in Mark 8:31 mean nothing either.
I’ll give you another one of my favorite verses. Applies to you.
“In vain they worship Me, teaching instead the doctrines and traditions of men” - Matthew 15:9
What seminary did you earn your MDiv from?
None say "the fourth day" except by inference - and that inference is based on a 21st century understanding of chronology, not a 1st century one.
An aside: citing Scripture - the Word of God - as a petty insult on a web forum is probably playing with fire.
According to my understanding:
There is a command in the Torah which particularly specifies the passover is to be in 'the abib'... not the MONTH of Abib, but in the month of 'the abib'. That month BEGINS according to the Barley being abib
One needs to understand the term 'abib/aviv'. This is roughly a state where the barley ear is no longer liquid, but still soft (not able to grind outright into flour). It is necessary for the barley to be 'abib' (at that state) in order for it to be ripe enough by First Fruits, for the purpose of performing the First Fruits offering.
If it is a cold spring, the barley will not be abib, and the First Fruits offering would not be able to be made. If the barley is not 'abib' at the end of Adar (the last month of the year according to the Torah), then it will not be ready (ripe) for the offering. In such a case, one must wait for the next new moon, when it certainly will be ripe... and so Adar II, the 'leap month' is inserted between Adar and Aviv.
This is the only Biblical precept for determining the new year. It is not according to a counting of days or weeks, and it is not according to the vernal equinox. Only the state of the barley before/at the new moon following Adar.
I think it is pretty cool, as it leaves the governing of YHWH's Holy Days in YHWH's hands alone, as nothing can be set until one knows the first month is established. No long term planning, no predicting. Just DO... A hard thing for a corporate body (like a priesthood) to endure, no doubt...
And it is a substantial PIA if one tries to test history to find events according to YHWH's calendar instead the of the Roman one. Every event has to be tested against normal (one can find the new moon astronomically) vs. +1 day vs. +29 days vs. 29+1 days. Trying to find a pattern in any given year would blow your mind.
But I think it is purposeful - I think the events on those days are preserved in history BECAUSE no one has been paying attention to the barley.
This leads into the subjectivity of the dating and the problem of retrojecting a computus that was invented well after the destruction of the Second Temple into dating events that occurred before it.
That is the only thing that is direct and scriptural. You will find no other.
The current Jewish calendar is admittedly a Pharisaical invention. To a degree, it is credible invention, as one of the few things that almost assuredly DID happen at the much maligned Council of Jamnia was an effort to preserve the Holy Days in diaspora. Since they could no longer sight the moon and test the barley at Jerusalem, there was no way to determine the beginning of the year, and thereby, no way to assign the spring Holy Days. In fact, ALL the Holy Days are based upon the sighting of the new moon at Jerusalem every month.
Even now, there is a substantial movement among the conservative Jews to restore Biblical reckoning.
Beggin' your pardon, but this is a primary example of difference in interpretation. My reply to you would be, "How can ten verses overrule the one?
It would seem that 'rightly dividing' would require ALL the verses to be true. One cannot cherry-pick:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
ALL of it MUST be true, as YHWH's word does not return to him empty.
For me, the riddle is where the work is. That which seems to be contradictory must be addressed and worked out, or one suffers the Word against ones own desires and the homogeneity of common perception (milk).
Careful now, for the example given for our examination goes quite the other way:
The authority and common consensus when Yeshua walked the earth was also two thousand years in the making, and was completely wrong. They missed the time of their visitation. It was the ones who went against the common notion who were able to see Yeshua for what He was.
What do you suppose that example serves?
So we should take your understanding over 10 direct quotes from scripture. The testimony of Askmoses.com, and a Jewish visitor here. Well heck that is good enough for me. /SARC
No, But one should not ignore the Torah in favor of anyone's tradition (including mine). But if one scriptural quote stands against your belief, then it still cannot be right.
And as I said upthread, the consensus, the majority view when Yeshua walked the earth was not correct. He was one, and they were many... But their tradition was wrong, and He was not afraid to speak against them. Might does not make right.
Thanks for your common-sense and biblical explanation.
Sadly, as often experienced myself - tradition trumps truth, and if you even daresay “this is my understanding” - you will be attacked and vilified for daring to go against the herd.
For them, a herd or tradition is never wrong - even when you point out that Jesus was vilified in the same way for pointing out that the entire religion of Judaism had it wrong when it came to their traditions and understanding that were not biblical.
Their religious leaders also accused Jesus of having a demon when He spoke the truth that went against centuries of Talmudic law and tradition.
3 days
Friday, Saturday and Sunday. 3 days
So it is your understanding that “Talmudic law and tradition” were “centuries” old at the time of Jesus?
The oral law gained prominence after rebuilding the Second Temple in Jerusalem around 515BCE and continued until it's destruction in A.D. 70 by the Romans.
The 'Oral Law' eventually was written down and became the Talmud sometime in the early Medieval period. That is why I used the term 'Talmudic' in reference to Jesus excoriating the Sadducees/Scribes and Pharisees for their traditions recorded in Mark 7:5-9:
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?” He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the traditions of men.’
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition".
Correct right makes right. Jesus was in the tomb three days. He went in Friday came out Sunday.
Still waiting where did you get earn your MDiv from?
Well I’m glad all that hypocrite stuff has been solved and that there aren’t any disputes between various traditions about what constitutes something like the exact meaning of “three days”.
Every other religion and especially the Atheists and Secularists pounce on the contradictions of tradition and doctrine with what is written in the bible.
The Good Friday/Easter Sunday Resurrection is one of the chief accusations they cite to discredit the Christian faith as a fraud.
Oh yeah, I get that, but given the vagueries of multiple translations between multiple languages, this case doesn’t seem like a big deal.
And thank you for your kind reply.
Sadly, as often experienced myself - tradition trumps truth, and if you even daresay “this is my understanding” - you will be attacked and vilified for daring to go against the herd.
Thankfully, the Father has armored me well for such things - He showed me Ezekiel laying naked in the streets, playing in his sandbox, cooking his food over a dung fire. And He showed me the people walking by, and their expressions. Since then, I haven't worried about anyone thinking me a fool. I will gladly be a fool to men. I do not want to be a fool to YHWH.
For them, a herd or tradition is never wrong - even when you point out that Jesus was vilified in the same way for pointing out that the entire religion of Judaism had it wrong when it came to their traditions and understanding that were not biblical.
Such is always the case. The Bible explicitly shows this as the main problem time after time - Men chase the folly of their traditions and ignore the Word... And the chief thing ignored is the Torah, with the prophets following. They do ignore these things at their peril.
I am no better - Every time I think I have purged the leaven in my life, I find more.
But I find solace in the prophets - Because we know the end: There ain't gonna be a Roman cathedral sitting atop Mount Zion.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.