4 Truths About Hell Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ?

The Aquila Report ^ | 4-6-13 | Tom Ascol

[ReformationFan]

Believing the truth about hell also motivates us to persuade people to be reconciled to God. By God’s grace those of us who are trusting Christ have been rescued from this horrible destiny. How can we love people and refuse to speak plainly to them about the realities of eternal damnation and God’s gracious provision of salvation? Clearer visions of hell will give us greater love for both God and people.

“There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ’s moral character, and that is that He believed in hell.” So wrote the agnostic British philosopher Bertrand Russell in 1967. The idea of eternal punishment for sin, he further notes, is “a doctrine that put cruelty in the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture.”

His views are at least more consistent than religious philosopher John Hick, who refers to hell as a “grim fantasy” that is not only “morally revolting” but also “a serious perversion of the Christian Gospel.” Worse yet was theologian Clark Pinnock who, despite having regarded himself as an evangelical, dismissed hell with a rhetorical question: “How can one imagine for a moment that the God who gave His Son to die for sinners because of His great love for them would install a torture chamber somewhere in the new creation in order to subject those who reject Him to everlasting pain?”

So, what should we think of hell? Is the idea of it really responsible for all the cruelty and torture in the world? Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ? Hardly. In fact, the most prolific teacher of hell in the Bible is Jesus, and He spoke more about it than He did about heaven.

[American Constitutionalist]

" Certain people are simply damned no matter what they do "

No one is dammed for placing their trust, hope, faith in Jesus Christ.

Did you read the proceding verses before when Jesus said that many will comes to him and say " LORD LORD " ?

same chapter,

Matthew 7


13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Let the bible reveal what the bible say, or let the bible interpret what the bible says.

What does Jesus mean by " enter there ye in the at the strait gate " the narrow gate ?

The bible says, not man, the bible says...

John 10:9 " I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. "

What was Jesus talking about those who will say " LORD LORD " on judgement day ?

He was simply talking about those LAW preaching, very religious folks who went to chruch, but never knew Christ, and God's grace.

You know ?

Those who say they read the bible , who go to church, all religious, but, have no " RELATIONSHIP " with Jesus Christ.

Jesus was talking about all the unsaved, i.e. born again people who will be sent to hell.

[American Constitutionalist]

It’s about unsaved sinners in the hands of a angry God.

[American Constitutionalist]

Sorry for the many typos.
I am being rushed to write this, sorry.

Jesus was talking about all the unsaved, i.e. unsaved, not born again people who will be sent to hell.

[ansel12]

Catholics believe suicide when committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent is a complete separation from God (a mortal sin) and send a person to hell.

I accept that, but I have always wondered about suicide in the face of capture by some Indians for instance, when many Christian Americans would kill themselves (and their children) rather than be captured by people who were experts in torture from lifelong study of pain and how to inflict it, while keeping a person alive for days.

I have also wondered about a soldier or aqent who knows too much to be taken alive, and must kill himself.

[randog]

...theologian Clark Pinnock who, despite having regarded himself as an evangelical, dismissed hell with a rhetorical question: “How can one imagine for a moment that the God who gave His Son to die for sinners because of His great love for them would install a torture chamber somewhere in the new creation in order to subject those who reject Him to everlasting pain?”

When we redefine God we make ourselves out to be god. After all, if you can define who God is then aren't you the more powerful being? Interesting note: those that redefine God will redefine him/her/it in their image--their god thinks like they do, acts the same, is in constant agreement, is charming, witty, dashing, charismatic....why, god becomes downright awesome, a god that they can actually see in the mirror and really, really fall in love with!!

[count-your-change]

Well, How ‘bout it, RF, what was Jesus and David being punished for while in hell?

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

I’m trying to make sense of something that we otherwise cannot truly understand.

Then understand that Jesus didn't come to save us from hell, but to save us so we could go home to the love of our eternal father.

That is the meaning of the parable of the prodical son.

[Chasaway]

Yes, I know.

And when I first read it, I’d been a Christian for about 14 years.

And it scared me. I re-calibrated after reading it.

[BenLurkin]

Thank you.

[Musketeer]

Here is a very good read regarding this topic...

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d030601.htm

[ReformationFan]

Please provide the Bible verses that state Christ and David were punished in hell.

[ReformationFan]

Agreed. Romans 7-

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207&version=NKJV

[CottShop]

[[His views are at least more consistent than religious philosopher John Hick, who refers to hell as a “grim fantasy”]]

Hopefulyl he coems to his senses BEFORE he has to find otu hte hard way just how wrogn he is

[BornToBeAmerican]

Please take comfort in the words of Jesus.

From the Darby bible: John 12:32. and I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me.

And now Paul.

I Tim. 4:9-10

“This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

I trust in the living God who is the savior of all men, specially those that believe and also that I recognize this as a faithful saying worthy of never being forgotten.

Now watch the naysayers flame me. They will flame me because they pick and they choose what the want to believe to please their itching ears.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Of course the will scoff in glee and ignore this.....

1Cr 3:11. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,

1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.

1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

They will totally ignore the last verse, where Paul clearly states that though this person, loses everything, the will be saved as if by fire.

What fire?

Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.

And they will scoff louder after reading this.

Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer's soap.

Yes, every impurity will be washed away, and Gods children ALL OF THEM NOT A SELECT FEW. will be as pure as white snow.

Luk 15:2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

Luk 15:3 Then Jesus told them this parable:

Luk 15:4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn't he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?

Luk 15:5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders

Luk 15:6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’

Now just because I dare quote Jesus and Paul, I will be the greatest heretic imagined.

But then, they ignore this next Scripture too.

Darby Translation:
Col 1:25 of which I became minister, according to the dispensation of God which [is] given me towards you to complete the word of God,

Yes, Paul was commissioned to complete the Word of God. Not John.

Here say? Hardly, because we have the Scriptures that agree.

“In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20:21-22:

In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
No more rule
No more authority
No more power
No more enemies
No more reigning
All subjected
No more death, death destroyed.
All made alive, immortal

In Revelation 20, 21 & 22, we have:
Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
Authority (21:24,25)
Power (21:24,25; 22:2)
Kings (21:24-26)
Saints reign (22:5)
Second death still exists (21:5)
The nations still mortal (22:2)

Consequently, Col. 1:16-20:
All in heaven and earth created in Him (verse 16)
All for Him (verse 16)
All estranged are reconciled (verse 20)

Romans 5:18-21 (Darby)
18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous. 20 But law came in, in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace has overabounded, 21 in order that, even as sin has reigned in the power of death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice it is the same many. If the word (the) was not used it would simply state ‘many’ but it does not, it states ‘the many’

But all of this is meaningless as all who believe in hell believe that Satan has more power than Christ. How so, simple. When asked the question: who will win. Adam or Christ, they will say Adam every time. Because they believe an inferior man, born into sin controlled by the Father of this world: Satan could not be possibly be saved by a loving God.

So who wins? In their mind Satan. Not in my mind though. God has had a plan since before the beginning of time.

[Iscool]

Here’s a question for everyone: If Christian kills himself, will he go to Hell?

No...

[CottShop]

[[Don’t mean to make light of such a deep subject that we really know very little about]]

I actually ‘went there’ with an NDE- Near Death Experience (although I wasn’t ‘pronounced dead’) I don’t beleive I was actualyl there- and rather think it was a hallucination caused by the high fever (thankfully was in hospital awaitign operastion for the issue so they reacted quickly) but lemme tell ya- it was ‘real enough’ for me and soemthign I can tell folks that they DO NOT want to experrience- especially since it’s goign to be even worse than what I experienced- I was so shaken fro mthe experience that I grabbed the doc by his shirt and tried to explain what had just happened- (he didn’t weant to hear it) and I relayed the experience to many folks for awhile afterwards- I had the ‘whole experience’ experiencing ‘passing away’ then isnteasd of ‘headign toward the light’ I felt myself descend into Hell- and all the terrors that go with it-

That was ‘close enough for me-’ I NEVER want to expwerience thsi again- It was absoltuely terrifying-

[plain talk]

Thanks for posting. Don’t wish to sidetrack this thread or inquire too much about something so awfully personal ... but I am left with curiosity as to what you experienced. Have you written it down and are you able to share your experience in some fashion? I think it would be of interest to a lot of people.

Thanks

[count-your-change]

Number 3 of the 4 “truths” says hell is a state of punishment, the question naturally arises as to what David and Christ were being punished for since Acts 2:22-36 says both were in hell, Jesus but parts of three days.

Either they were not in hell or Number 3 from the source material is wrong.

[Iscool]

Catholics believe suicide when committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent is a complete separation from God (a mortal sin) and send a person to hell. There are 3 conditions for a mortal sin: grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent.

And based on what??? It doesn't matter what Catholics believe...What matters is, what does God say about it...And we know the bible says, 'there is no condemnation in those who are in Christ'...Case closed...

[American Constitutionalist]

I saw a video of some preacher back in the early 80s in YOUTUBE preaching this.

Need to pick it apart and understand whom the listening audiance was intended for that message.

It was for those who continue to reject Christ.

As the book of Hebrews talks about " If we continue to sin " as in ? unbelief.

Now ?

The LAW preachers would have you think that Hebrews 10:26 :

26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


To think it means those who got saved, and then finding themselves in sin ? are going to face hell and dammnation.

Once again, reveal what the bible says, by the bible, or interpret the bible with the bible.

1 John 1:9 : If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1 : My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


See there what John wrote ?

" And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the father "

So what does Hebrews 10:26 mean then ?

Those LAW preachers need to put the whole book of hebrews in it's proper context.

Read the whole book and to WHOM it was written to.

It was written to Jewish Hebrews who may have heard, and known the truth of the Gosple of Jesus Christ but have not acutally gotten saved, i.e. Born Again.

The writer was writing directly to those Jewish Herbrews.

The book of Hebrews was not written directly to us, but ? it was written FOR us.

The writer was making the argument how the law, the prophets, the old covenant, and the old sacrifice system was inferier to Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is much much more superior to the old way.

Also ?

The LAW preachers like to scare and cattle prod people into fear, hell and dammnation when the book of Hebrews says:

" and let us not forsake the assembly of the saints."

Once again, those who like to control people.


The LAW preachers are nothing but CULT leaders bringing people unto themselves, not Christ.

They love the power they have over the people.

The LAW preachers, have you noticed that most CULTS are LAW preachers and not grace preachers ?

They want to control the people to have control over their minds, lives, and money.....

A BIG OPPSS !!

God wants you to fellowship and go to church by your own will and love for him.

Those who like to control people have a excuse to extort more money from people love to use that scripture.

OPPSS !!!!

What that verse really means ?

The writer calls on those who may or may not have been born again not to go back into the Judiasm system.

Many of those saints may have gotten saved, or not saved and when the persecution got difficult ?

Or when they where excomunicated from the Synagogues ?

Or it hurt their business ?

Wealth ?
Fame ?

Or standing on the comunity by associating with christians ?

They adandon their christian faith.


Is has nothing to do with going to church every Sunday.

Where ?

The greedy preachers can Fleece the flock by pounding it into their heads that they are going to hell if they don't obey the Malachi 3:10 tithe.

OPPSS !! Looks like they have been exposed...

Double OPPSS !!


OPPSS !!!


Yeah, I can see them getting angry with me.... so be it.


The writer of the book of Hebrews is talking about those who have abandon their christian faith for what ever reason it may have been in those days.


Now ? In Hebrews chapter 10 verse 29 ?
Despite the spirit of Grace, i.e. offen.

How does someone offend the spirit of Grace ?

It has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with sinning.

For by GRACE are we saved through faith.

How about when someone says " they have fallen from Grace " ?
How can someone fall from Grace when they sin ?

When ? it was Grace that saved them ?

Yeah, I know, more of the LAW preacher's mind control to control the people and all their Doctrite degrees, and Theological Degrees and stuff to impress the people, but ?
They don't impress God at all... them wolves... theives.


So ? how does someone fall from Grace ?
You know how someone falls from grace ?


When they reject God's grace offer.
God's grace himself, Jesus Christ, and offen the spirit of Grace the Holy Spirit.

Those who have gone back into the law, and think by keeping the law will win them God's approval, acceptance, and salvation have fallen from Grace.


Read this from the last sentance down at the bottom, from the right to the left and on up....


First read ?
Offending the spirit of Grace, and you will get what the writer of Hebrew means.

Hebrews 10: 26 - 29 :


26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


They have done despite, ignor, despised the spirit of Grace, and God's gift of salvation in Jesus Christ.

If we continue to sin, and early on in this same book of Hebrew the writer tells us what this perticular sin is and what it's all about.... it's the sin of Unbelief in Christ.
Hebrews chapter 3:8-19


8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

15. While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18. And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


The writer talks about how Israel harden their hearts against God of unbelief when God told them to enter into the promised land.

Our Salvation in Christ by Grace through faith is our " Promised Land " and " Enteral Rest ".

The writer of the book of Hebrews says in Hebrews 4 verse 1:
4. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.


Now we understand what the writer means in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 26 :

26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we continue to sin, the sin of unbelief, by rejecting Christ and then die ? there remains no more means, or sacrifice for those who reject Christ and God's Grace... what can they expect from God ?



JUDGEMENT !!