Posted on 04/23/2013 9:37:23 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
True; the point was that ALL things said by PROTESTants are wrong.
And the BIBLE translates MANY Greek and Hebrew words into 'rock'.
You PROTESTants and your lack of TRADITION value is warping what the Word really means!
--CatholicDude(Peace be upon you2)
I suspected that. Thanks for the clarification.
OUCH!
That sums it up pretty well.
Nothing short of lockstep agreement with the Catechism of the Catholic church will satisfy.
And I doubt even that sometimes because there are so many areas where Catholics disagree with each other that it depends on who you're talking to.
It more comes down to what the particular Catholic you're talking to believes.
NL: “Jesus uses two completely different phrases through out the Gospels. When referring to mankind and this world he says “the flesh”. When referring to the Eucharist and the divine he says “my flesh”. I would encourage you to study the instances and meanings for a better understanding of the Gospels.”
OK, you’re on.....
Word for *flesh* in:
John 6:51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56
http://bible.cc/john/6-51.htm
John 6:63
http://biblos.com/john/6-63.htm
The word for *flesh* is the same in BOTH verses.
http://biblesuite.com/greek/4561.htm
sarx: flesh
Short Definition: flesh, body
Definition: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.
It is the exact same word used in Galatians 5 and Romans 8. There is also much more commentary at this link:http://biblesuite.com/greek/4561.htm
which I would post but would show up in HTML and mess up a simple post.
***************************************************************
However, it is NOT the same word as used in the Last Supper....
Matthew Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19, Matthew 26:26, 1 Corinthians 11:24, 27, 29
soma: a body
Short Definition: body, flesh
Definition: body, flesh; the body of the Church.
There is also a more in depth analysis of the word *soma* at this link: http://biblesuite.com/greek/4983.htm
***************************************************************
Thank you for the challenge. It goes to prove that what Jesus said in John 6 and during the Last Supper do not refer to the same thing. Therefore He did not mean the same thing. What He gave the disciples to eat and said was his body was not sarx but soma.
Therefore, by a brief study of the Bible, we can conclusively see that the Catholic teaching on the eating of the literal flesh of Jesus is wrong.
Interesting! Thank you for that research and post.
It goes to show that the claim that John 6 is tied to the Last Supper is wrong, in the least.
"We can only hope that the Albuquerque Stabber turns out to be a White PROTESTant."--David_Sirota_wannabe( http://news.yahoo.com/video/four-stabbed-mexico-church-085420232.html )
If we are to study Jesus words at that last supper we cannot ignore the word he used for “is”, which in Greek is “estin”.
Does it indicate that the the bread and wine were literally his flesh and blood or were these representitive symbols so that his words should be rendered, “This represents...” or “symbolizes” his flesh and blood as some highly respected translators have done?
Are there instances where “estin” is translated “is” when the meaning plainly is “means” or “represents”?
Of course. In Jesus parable of the wheat and weeds (Matt. 13) he says “the world” estin/is the field, the seed “estin” the sons of the kingdom.
Were the sons of the kingdom seeds? or did term “seeds” simply mean seeds represents them?
Whether to translate “estin” as “is” or “means/represent” depends upon the context of the Scriptures. Jesus had already called himself “bread” well before that last night, clearly not in a literal sense.
We do that sort of thing all the time.
When we’re explaining something to someone, like in a drawing, we draw the picture and say *This is.....*.
And of course, nobody thinks it is the real object but understand that it’s only a representation.
Some people are metaphor challenged.
Since we do that all the time it’s hard to understand why others aren’t allowed to do so by the “metaphor challenged”.
Jesus also said that He was the door, the gate, the way, the shepherd, but we all know He was a carpenter and that He is not made out of wood or wheat.
Posted for everyone’s edification not just those pinged:
“Soma” also appears in the following passages: Matt 27:58-59, Mark 14:8, Mark 15:43, Luke 23:52 & 55, Luke 24:3, Luke 24:23, John 19:38, Acts 9:40, Romans 12:5, 1 Cor 11:29, 1 Cor 12:12-13. (Note, this is not an exhaustive list either)
As metmom wrote earlier, there are different definitions for “soma”, one literal (flesh), one figurative (a body, either human or a collection of works) one metaphorical (the Church).
It is thus left to the reader to discern when and/ or where each sense must be applied.
Note, some of the passages above clearly and indisputably use “soma” to refer to the actual, “literal”, Body of Christ, i.e., His Flesh. Such passages are found immediately after the Last Supper account in the Gospels.
Yes indeed.
Are you saying that this applies to the first 11 chapters of Genesis too?
Pax et bonem
That’s right because they can’t discern when it’s metaphor and not.
If the literal interpretation of a passage, as in eating blood, contradicts the weight of clear teaching of the rest of Scripture that forbids it, then it’s a clue that the literal interpretation is not correct but that’s it’s a metaphor.
Genesis is an historical account. To take the first few chapters as metaphor or figuratively and then switch midstream and take the rest as literal is poor hermeneutics.
If the first 11 chapters of Genesis are figurative, and there’s nothing in the passages that indicates they are, then the rest of the book ought to be interpreted that way.
That means that all from Abraham through the Exodus is metaphor or figurative as well.
Actually, when He’s talking about eating His flesh, as in John 6, He uses the different tern, of *sarx*, not soma.
*Sarx* is what means the literal flesh as in that which is muscle etc. If you read the further analysis of the word at the links, that is explained.
*soma* obviously has a different connotation, otherwise it wouldn’t be a separate word.
Jesus used *soma* at the Last Supper, not *sarx*.
Actually, this is an allegory, not a metaphor. Metaphors are rarely used in the Gospels. A metaphor is a comparison of of unrelated objects and actions. An allegory is a deeper comparison to reveal a deeper or hidden relationship. The word metaphor is derived from the Latin "Metaphora", meaning carrying over. Allegory is derived from Latin "Allegoria", meaning figurative or veiled language.
Peace be to you.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.