Posted on 05/10/2013 7:36:49 PM PDT by boatbums
That verse in Matthew is the only verse the RCC has to build it’s hierarchy on and it doesn’t even say what the RCC claims. It’s Satanic deceit and one day the followers of that cult will be horrified to realize the error they have followed.
I happened to research many other Christian denominations and other religions as well. It was through that research that I came to the conclusion that all (I think we’re at 40,000 and counting ?) Protestant denominations were false.
How long did it take you to investigate and research 40,000+ Protestant denominations??? That must have taken decades before you finally finished up and decided on a religion...
I find that entire thing quite remarkable...You wouldn't be fibbin' would you???
This isn't about you.
“This isn’t about you.”
I know! It’s all about you! LOL
No, you and I are insignificant. This is about the Truth.
Peace be with you
The same guidelines for sourcing apply regardless of the poster’s beliefs or pro/con position in the debate.
That said, making the thread "about" individual Freepers IS a form of "making it personal." Flame wars ignite when posters focus on the messengers instead of the message.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Natural Law: Making the thread "about" another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."
Both of you, discuss the message, not the messenger.
**So, basically, when Christ says “I am the First and the Last” He is speaking of the Father within Him, and not really of Himself, but in the same sentence when He says “who was dead, and is alive”, He’s reverted to speaking to Himself.**
You can’t separate the Father (Spirit), and the Son (tabernacle of flesh, complete with mind and soul; the image of the invisible God). The Christ said: “I and my Father are ONE.” John 10:30. The image died, but the Spirit raised it back up, and is there to this day.
I pointed out in John 14, how the Christ is the visible word of God, speaking the words of God the Father, Who dwells in him, but you don’t believe his words (John 1:1) are from the Father, but are a separate entity of God.
He tells you again in John 15:15, where he addresses his disciples: “..I have called you my friends; for ALL things that I have HEARD of my Father I have made known unto you.
**Your god doesn’t exist. Only Jesus Christ does. Therefore, I cannot be blessed by you.**
Only Jesus Christ is God, because he has all power (the Father in him).
You avoided dealing with the phrases ‘God the Son’, and ‘God the Holy Ghost’, which are not in the scriptures, just as you avoided John 14. Those phrases are divisive; portraying God to be more than one object in number, which his Word completely disagrees with. But your carnal understanding is what has been taught by men of carnal understanding.
Understanding the Godhead is a revelation given by the Father; “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matt. 16:17
"Has" is a present tense verb. When Jesus says we HAVE (one has) eternal life, it means that it is in our possession NOW.
Ephesians 1:11-14 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 2:4-10 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
When we are saved, we are already in heaven spiritually. The spiritual reality of our salvation exists even though the physical manifestation of it hasn't come to pass yet. We're still in this physical body until the work to which He has called us to do is done.
I would submit to you that God's mercy is far more abundantly merciful that we can even imagine, that yes, we ARE saved and can be sure of it because of God's faithful character.
God created mankind for a relationship with Him. He went to incredible lengths to save us. He calls us, He draws us, He convicts us, He lived the life we could not live ourselves, He died the death we could not die, He paid the debt we could not pay.
He ordained the exact times and places we should live in order to make it as easy to find Him as possible.
And he's going to ditch us for the least little infraction or excuse? Seems to me that many think God is looking for an excuse to damn us. Oooops, you sinned and didn't go to confession. Too bad for you. ZZZOOOTTT!!!
On the contrary, I think He is looking for excuses to save us. I think he takes the weakest of efforts and the most stumbling of walks and accepts it, not on the basis of perfection of actions, but attitude of the heart.
King David sinned greatly, but he was still called by God *a man after God's own heart*.
mmThe wages of sin is death. What we get or earn for what we do is death. There’s not a thing that we do or can do that is not tainted by sin, therefore all our works are as filthy rags before God. That’s why they don’t count for anything.
MB: But you may not be entirely correct in your grasp of it - it is definitely a Catholic understanding of Judgement, as opposed to the various Protestant understandings.
What various understandings of *it* what? What is the antecedent to which *it* refers?
Can't win them all......
Mock, snerk, belittle.....
AMEN!!!
“You can’t separate the Father (Spirit), and the Son (tabernacle of flesh, complete with mind and soul; the image of the invisible God). The Christ said: “I and my Father are ONE.” John 10:30. The image died, but the Spirit raised it back up, and is there to this day.”
If that’s what the scriptures meant, they would say that clearly. It would say “In the beginning, God created His own voice, who cannot be spoken of as being separate from Himself, who would be His vessel on Earth, who, by the way, is also not a voice but is a created being and is therefore a separate being from the Father.” Here is the Word being with God (separate), and being God (One), both at the same time:
John 1:1-3?(From memory): In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
It does not speak of Christ as being a human vessel of flesh, mind and bone, a mere vessel for the “soul” of the Father. The scripture speaks of Christ existing with the Father from the beginning. And this same Christ calls Himself the ‘First and the Last’ and “the almighty.” He similarly receives worship, not because of the Father in Him, but because of who He is personally. It’s quite specious to claim that when Christ says of Himself “I am the First and the Last,” He really means NOT Himself, but someone else, but when He continues to say “which was dead and is alive,” suddenly He speaks of Himself.
“You avoided dealing with the phrases ‘God the Son’, and ‘God the Holy Ghost’, which are not in the scriptures, just as you avoided John 14. “
You’ve avoided giving even a coherent theological position. Aside from confusion, what is it that you actually believe? Either Christ is a created being separate from the Father, or He is God and has always been with the Father. Either way, you seem to say whatever it takes to get by.
Correction. Christ is BUILDING a church.
And it's really a church made of people, not brick and mortar headquartered anywhere on this planet.
It's a living organism.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
CB:Only in the pagan mythology of the RCC.
MB:Only in the words of Jesus Christ as found in the pages of Matthew. That surpasses anything that you might consider to be objectionable. I trust Jesus over any man - including anyone on an online forum.
Clearly PETER HIMSELF didn't get the message then.
This is what HE has to say about the matter.
1 Peter 2:4-8 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and
“A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Yes. Show me where healing on the Sabbath is 'work'. And if so, that it falls outside of the function of a priest on the Sabbath.
Did Jesus disciples pick grain on the Sabbath? Yes or no.
Yes. Show me where it is not permitted to gather a handful of grain... That THAT is 'work'.
Did Jesus permit the eating of "unclean" food to Peter in a vision? Yes or no.
No, as per Peter.
Which one of these activities were permitted according to the Mosaic law found in Exodus and Leviticus? Cite chapter and verse!
All of them, with the exception of the unclean foods (which did not happen according to Peter).
I know exactly what I said.
**He similarly receives worship, not because of the Father in Him, but because of who He is personally.**
“Not because the Father in Him”?? You’re making that up, and how do I know?.....your absolute dodge of John 14, and the continual dodge of explaining the unscriptural phrases ‘God the Son’ and ‘God the Holy Ghost’, that are used to help explain the ‘trinity’.
**It does not speak of Christ as being a human vessel of flesh, mind and bone, a mere vessel for the “soul” of the Father.**
Once again you show you ignorance of the scriptures; “But a body thou hast prepared me.” The soul of Jesus Christ was given a body, and the Father dwells in the body, along with the soul of a man; the man who said, “..thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Who didn’t leave the Christ’s soul in hell? The Father. Who didn’t allow the divinely created, yet mortal, body see corruption? The Father.
**Either Christ is a created being separate from the Father, or He is God and has always been with the Father.**
There is no separation. God tried to tell you in John 14, but you don’t believe his words there.
**Either way, you seem to say whatever it takes to get by.**
No, I seem to say things that go against your unscriptural understanding of the Godhead. Three separate and distinct, co-equal persons of God equals three Gods, not ONE. Your problem, not mine. Good night.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
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