Posted on 05/11/2013 4:18:13 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
"This is called slave labor," said Pope Francis.
The Holy Father was referring to the $40 a month paid to apparel workers at that eight-story garment factory in Bangladesh that collapsed on top of them, killing more than 400.
"Not paying a just wage ... focusing exclusively on the balance books, on financial statements, only looking at personal profit. That goes against God!"
The pope is describing the dark side of globalism
Why is Bangladesh, after China, the second-largest producer of apparel in the world? Why are there 4,000 garment factories in that impoverished country which, a few decades ago, had almost none?
Because the Asian subcontinent is where Western brands -- from Disney to Gap to Benetton -- can produce cheapest. They can do so because women and children will work for $1.50 a day crammed into factories that are rickety firetraps, where health and safety regulations are nonexistent.
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...
We can agree on that. Ephesians 6:5-9 commands BOTH the employee and employer to the same obligations of honest service and consideration for the other. God's way has no place for adversarial relations between the two.
Godless Capitalism?
Every one knows that it was socialism that brought in globalism and the so called free trade which was for the express purpose of shutting down the industry in the U.S.
Socialism is Godless, not capitalism.
Capitalism is merely a thing of nature, it is what people have been involved in since the beginning of time, one person is good at making axes, another is good at making knives, lets trade so we will both have the best of everything.
Safety laws have nothing to do with God, it just comes with common sense, most people have the sense to change jobs, if they find the people they are working for are too stingy to make things reasonably safe they will go to some place where working conditions are better.
The law makers picked up on it and started making safety laws here in the united states and many other countries.
Socialism comes in and uses the regulations in the U.S to destroy the American industry, because they know that the Americans with all of the safety laws, plus rules on top of rules, regulation on top of more regulations which costs more than what any company can sell it for after paying for the help to do it simply can not stay in business.
The pope has the right idea but, but the goal of the anti God society has nothing to do with safety, their goal is to destroy the place where freedom started, the united states of America.
Yes, I think we are in general agreement, so I then ask what is the Pope’s point? Where is his nuts and bolts solution that can applied, especially in parts of the world where the level of safety he believes should be achieved is unaffordable? In this particular case, you accurately lay fault where it belongs on the owner, but for the Pope to extend this to some characteristic of capitalism, is also wrong, as you point out.
Socialism gave us Chernobyl. Socialism built those paint factories my friend is trying to fix in China, each one a potential death trap. Socialists can be moral too but often put power into the hands of people with no practical experience. These decision makers are just plain stupid but they are loyal, and that counts more than competence in a socialist system.
If the Pope wants to talk about moral business practices, he certainly can and should do so but to attribute them to capitalism smirks of an endorsement of socialism, which has killed far more people exclusive of industrial accidents.
These horrid conditions would not exist in these countries if we bought garments made in the USA.
But of course, if there were no market for the products, the evil factories in these third world countries would close, and then we Americans would be excoriated for not supporting Third World industry, and putting millions of people out of work.
Here is my hierarchy of purchasing:
1. NOTHING “MADE IN CHINA”
2. NOTHING “Made in Pakistan”
3. Nothing “Made in Bangladesh”
4. Nothing made in any muslim country under Sharia Law (The exception is gas for my car...I can’t tell where their oil comes from, but I try to buy gas at Hess or Valero, where they are less likely to be buying direct from Saudi Arabia.)
5. Nothing from countries that obviously hate America.
6. Luckily, most of our advances in medicine, science, technology, etc, come from Israel, so I can still use those things.
However, my clothes are wearing out and it is very difficult to find new clothing made in the USA, so I will have to get out my old sewing machine!
I buy a lot of things at yard sales, so, while it may have been originally from one of those nations, MY money isn’t going to them.
I really LIKE Pope Francis, and believe he is a good and learned man. However, the tragedy in Bangladesh is a direct result of the corruption and greed of the people THERE, who are most probably muslim and don’t care what he has to say about it. To blame capitalism for the disaster is not even scratching the surface of the spiritual cesspool that exists in our world.
Just my humble opinion, don’t mean to offend my Catholic Brothers and Sisters.
I’m not entirely sure the pope IS ‘attributing to capitalism’ this particular tragedy - he doesn’t use the word, only the article writer does. His comments on ‘slave labor’ and on ‘focusing exclusively on .... personal profit’ appear to refer to the way these particular workers were treated and ended up - i.e. dead, through their employer’s lack of morals, pursuit of short-term profits by criminal means, and industrial malpractice, in a situation where many of them likely had only two life-choices here - take this job or life in abject poverty. This is what, to me, he is commenting on - moral practices in business. Which is quite different from criticizing capitalism per se.
As for applying ‘nuts and bolts solutions’ - this is perhaps more of a political issue, specifically one for the Bangladeshi government, as I think you yourself stated. I don’t find it particularly odd or unacceptable for a Christian religious leader to comment on the moral dimensions or implications of a particular newsworthy incident. It does seem to me - from what is quoted here, anyway, and admittedly the full text of the pope’s comments isn’t included - that it’s the writer of this article, more than the pope, who’s making the papal comments out to be a criticism of capitalism itself.
Fair enough. I see your point and it’s a good one in my opinion.
I’ve worked on many dangerous jobs and seen people killed. None of them contracted to die or expected to. It’s always a case of how much risk is a worker willing to accept for the money paid.
Sure an employer that is indifferent to the dangers presented to the workers should be punished in some way but closing down the jobs on account of the low wages and rotten conditions is of little benefit to some starving peasant.
Of course shutting down a ship breaker or sweatshop gives a great feeling of moral superiority to those with full bellies and slick pink cheeks.
Nothing funny about it nor ironic — it is self-destructive a.k.a suicidal.
I well remember the busy cottonmills in Georgia back in the 50’s and 60’s producing better products than the Chinese make today.
The industry of garment manufacture has been flowing into that country because of cost benefit to those manufacturers. Workers are readily found because of the opportunity that these manufacturers represent, that does not exist elsewhere. Thus, these workers are helped to avoid starvation and many of the other frequent calamities that have beset Bangladesh for a very long time. It is a fair exchange, not coerced to my knowledge, that has been to the benefit and betterment of both parties.
Part of the reason Bangladesh is desirable from a cost standpoint is the lack of regulation overall, and the ignoring of those fairly primitive and basic regulations that do exist. This leads to such things as buildings that collapse. The same or similar has occurred in China and in fact has occurred in every nation seeking to transition into a more industrial economy.
The scale of this entirely avoidable catastrophe Is horrific, and made all the more horrifying because this could have easily been avoided, but was not. Those responsible should be punished and severely. That is not to say, however, that the lot of Bangladeshis in general has not been improved by the presence of such industry.
It has.
Pat Buchanan attacking Capitalism? That guy puts the Socialism into National Socialism.
Working on an oil rig is one thing. Being incinerated in a garment factory is another.
First of all, that is the title of the editorial written by Pat Buchanan.
Here is a semi-official account of the actual homily. You won't actually find the words "Godless Capitalism" in his actual homily, nor will you even find the word "capitalism" contained in it either.
Socialism is Godless, not capitalism.
Socialism is inherently godless. There is no way that socialism can be "Christianized" in any way shape or form. Capitalism is, by its essence, much more so in line with the Teachings of Christ. However, to say it can't be abused by godless men is, at best, naive.
Why is Bangladesh, after China, the second-largest producer of apparel in the world? Why are there 4,000 garment factories in that impoverished country which, a few decades ago, had almost none? ...because women and children will work for $1.50 a day crammed into factories that are rickety firetraps, where health and safety regulations are nonexistent.Bangladesh is a muzzie hell-hole, China is a commie hell-hole.
And give’m a “just” wage too so they can live a dignified life.
I think a hundred dollars an hour would be enough dignity.
“Working on an oil rig is one thing. Being incinerated in a garment factory is another.”
Being incinerated is being incinerated either way.
Socialism is inherently godless. There is no way that socialism can be “Christianized” in any way shape or form. Capitalism is, by its essence, much more so in line with the Teachings of Christ. However, to say it can’t be abused by godless men is, at best, naive.
In answer to what i assume the pope did say was about slave labor, if some one is forced to work on a job against their will that would be slave labor regardless the wage or lack of wage.
Jesus pointed out that if the worker agreed to work for a certain wage that it was hardly any one else,s business.
At any rate i have no argument with the pope, but i have worked for fairly low wages all of my life and have not once complained to the Church or government because i do not think it is any of their business.
Then it’s up to their government or the people to change that....not the Global Barons who would then have us all working at their idea of a fair “International” wage rate.
"When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof." (Deuteronomy 22:8).
“When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof.” (Deuteronomy 22:8).
But what i meant was how many of the people who make the safety laws even know or care what God says about it?
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