Posted on 05/22/2013 7:21:09 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
If a pastor says that he has prayed and sought direction from God, and yet is opposed by the deacon board, should the pastor be able to overrule them? Do deacons occupy a role beyond that of an advisor? Are they equal in authority to the pastor? I'm not saying that a deacon board is no better than dirt (by any stretch of the imagination, as they do have a necessary and Biblical role to fill), but I can't find any scripture where a deacon board has authority equal to that of a psator.
It has been said that the pastor is God's gift to the church, and the board the church's gift to the pastor. Yet the two cannot be equal, as God's gifts are greater than man's gifts, because God is greater than man.
Secondly, if the church is to embark upon a building program, should the decision be left up to the deacon board, with each of them putting down their assets as collateral (which is the case in some denominations depending upon the church's affiliation - be it district or national), or should each tithe-paying voting member have a vote (and thus a say) in any building program, and with enough yes votes, putting the church itself up as collateral?
Should any position (be it pastor or deacon) be permanent and never voted upon?
Yes it is. If a Bible-based conservative church, it is in the business of saving souls, creating opportunities for service and improving the lot of mankind through Christ-centered actions and teachings.
If a libtard feel-good church, it is in the business of pushing big government solutions under the cloak of faux Christianity.
There is no escape from the business model in either case.
Ideally, the spiritual leadership and the business leadership of a congregation should be seperate but supportive of each other. From your description, these two are at odds. Until they can both show humbleness and find a way to agree without any rancor, nothing should be moved on. BTW, if the board of deacons are elected by the congregation, the voters have already had their say. Putting something up to a general vote should not be done.
Oh, while not all elders are gifted as pastors/shepherds, they are all given the charge to “shepherd” the church of God - the verb form of the noun poimen....
See Acts 20:28 where Paul gave his last instructions to the elders of the church at Ephesus: “shepherd the church of God”.
Then see I Peter 5:1,2; verse 4 implies that the elders are indeed the shepherds of the church, relating them to the Lord Jesus, “the Chief Shepherd”.
The elders (plural) main duty is to shepherd the church of God. But no elder, in fact no man, is ever titled “Pastor” in scripture. Except for the Lord Jesus. He alone has that title. Wouldn’t want to be caught taking a place that is only His.......
20 Replies. I wondered if/when someone would point out the denominational errors of pastors and deacon boards.
Lots of opinions here, but little reference to scripture as a basis.
A statement of the true spiritual condition of the church today. Tons of man’s ideas - little basis in scripture.
And a reason for the sad condition of most of the church.......
Since you are a laissez-faire capitalist :-) you would agree that a church is a voluntary organization. Any group of people who are forming a church would decide up front how authority and responsibility will be divided up among its members: whether the pastor/priest would have final authority, or a majority (or supermajority) of a governing body, or if all decisions require a majority (or supermajority) of the voting members. Anyone considering joining a church that is already formed should know ahead of time how the church divides up authority and responsibility among its members, and since joining is voluntary, decide beforehand whether or not to agree to the church’s setup.
I would think you must obey whatever the congregation’s charter states. If the deacon or pastor has received a spiritual word, let it be tested according to the scripture that he may convince whatever temporal authorities may exist. Contrary to popular notions, even the pope in the Catholic church never says, “you must believe me because I tell you God told me this, and I am the pope!”
Rather, in all matters, his authority is temporal (worldly), and may certainly be misguided or evil. The only time he is infallible is when he proclaims the truth of a moral doctrine, in which case his authority is not his own, but rather merely his ability to discern what the not-yet-infalible doctrine had always been in the Church, without informed opposition. This is why popes summon ecumenical councils: to see if a doctrinal consensus truly can be reached, if none already exists. Only in three matters has the pope ever declared a doctrine infallibly without benefit of a council, and in each case he affirmed the unanimity of bishops throughout the world and throughout history.
>> The word “poimen” (pastor or shepherd) is always plural in the NT except when used in reference to the Lord Jesus; the early churches were governed by the elders - always plural again - who had final say. <<
Not nearly as meaningful as you make it. Neither is that word ever used to refer to a multiplicity of pastors, however, except in Ephesians 4:11, which hardly makes your point (”And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”).
Only in matters of doctrine, my FRiend. There is an eternity of distance between a decision whether to build an addition, and whether to alter the church's stance on baptismal regeneration. If in the former case you insist on the unity of the Spirit, you would have to accept that same scrutiny in the choice of the color of the choir robes, and be prepared to say that the misguided sinful souls who insist on navy rather than royal blue are outside of the Will of God.
I think you would agree that last case is just silly. Are we in unity of the Spirit there?
1) the pastor says he has prayed and sought God, says that it is God’s will on something,
2) the pastor makes an appeal to the tithe-paying deacons representing the voting members of the congregation, saying that he believes "something" is God's will and he would like the church to collectively support the "something" effort,
3) the tithe-paying deacons representing the voting members of the congregation pray and seek God, and conclude individually and collectively that the pastor's leading on "something" is NOT God's will,
4) the deacons say no, and
5) the deacons overrule the pastor,
6) the pastor makes a direct appeal to the tithe-paying voting members of the congregation, saying that he believes "something" is God's will and he would like the church to collectively support the "something" effort,
7) the tithe-paying deacons, previously elected to represent the voting members of the congregation, inform the congregation that the pastor has already approached them, that they have prayed and sought God and have concluded individually and collectively that the pastor's leading on "something" is NOT God's will, and that the pastor has already been turned down by them,
8) the tithe-paying voting members pray and seek God on the matter of the pastor's "something" AND on the additional matter of the pastor's refusal to heed the deacons' decision,
9) the tithe-paying voting members either vote to override the deacon board (and possibly the remove the deacons from their representative position), OR they vote to uphold the deacons' decision on their behalf (and possibly vote to bring discipline against the rebellious pastor).
**Who Has The Final Say: Pastor, Deacon Board Or Voting Members?**
What church is run like this? Seriously, what denomination?
In general, the board is the controlling authority in the church and the Pastor is an employee.
So the board should be able to overrule the Pastor, and the voting congregation should be able to overrule the board.
This is how my church is organized and most churches are the same.
Christians are often susceptible to this “false guilt”. A good book on this is “Boundaries” by Cloud and Townsend, who are Christian psychologists.
In the Book of Acts, the Office of Deacon was created to FREE the Apostles from “serving tables in order to devote themselves to prayer and teaching”.
So, technically, the Diaconate ‘s duties are PHYSICAL, while the Pastor’s Duties are SPIRITUAL.
However, if your church’s by-laws differ, than it is incumbent upon the Board AND the pastor to go by the rules.
I haven’t gone to my church since the pastor told me I wasn’t welcome there. I had told him that if Jesus was there, he would drive the preacher and his wife out of the church with a whip.
My mother has about had it too. The most recent incident: he told me mother to stop doing mission work, because it was encouraging people to donate to missions, not to the church collection plate, and we really need a new sound system to compete with the Assembly of God.
“Not nearly as meaningful as you make it. “
Your opinion, dear brother.
The singular appearance of “pastors” (plural) in Eph. 4:11 only evidences that the current/traditional role of “Pastor” is not found anywhere in scripture. It never is a position or title. It is a gift (an individual) given by God to the church. Pastors are clearly vital to the church. It’s just that the traditional view is warped. The part of the church claiming to adhere only to scripture has no other practice that has less (zero) supporting scripture. The use of James as an example is a stretching scripture that would not be allowed in any other area of discussion of doctrine or practice.
I think this is the way it should be.
I wish it was this way in my old church.
Don't have one? Oh, well.
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