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Jesus Teaches that Regeneration Precedes Faith
Monergism.com ^ | John Hendryx

Posted on 06/04/2013 7:26:39 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans

Jesus Teaches that Regeneration Precedes Faith

by John Hendryx

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"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." (John 6:37)

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44)

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe ...And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (John 6:63, 65)

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According to Scripture, all people are born dead in sin (Eph 2:1). This simply means that, as a result of the Fall, people are born without the Holy Spirit and therefore, (left to themselves and being spiritually dead) are hostile to Christ (Rom. 8:7) and unable to understand to spiritual things (1 Cor 1:21). It does not mean they can do (or think) nothing in their fallen state, but it means they can do nothing spiritual or redemptive ... that they will always think God's word is foolish (1 Cor 2:14) until the Holy Spirit, who comes from the outside, works grace in their hearts (Ezek 11:19-20). The natural man may be alive to carnal things, but he is dead to spiritual things. So to the question: can any person come to faith in Christ apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, both the Arminian and the Calvinist would definitively answer "no". The Arminian asserts that this work of the Holy Spirit (this "prevenient grace" that temporarily gives the power of free choice) is ultimately resistible by the fallen sinner. Arminian's affirm that man, apart from grace, hates the light and will not come into the light. And because of this, the Spirit grants them a kind of post-regenerate - pre-conversion state where he is, for a time, lifted out of his moral depravity and given the opportunity to receive or reject the free offer of Christ in the gospel. To be a just God, most Arminians reason, God must give all people an equal opportunity to choose whether to believe or not. And this opportunity is granted, they claim, through prevenient grace. As most Arminians will admit, however, this "semi-regenerate" state is logically, rather than exegetically deduced. On the other hand, the Calvinist is convinced that the Bible teaches that regenerative grace itself opens our blind eyes, unplugs our deaf ears and gives us a new heart (Ezek 36:26, John 6:63) making God's call effectual, infallibly bringing the sinner to faith in Jesus Christ.

Arminian synergists assert that prevenient grace resolves the problem of human boasting since God initiates with grace. But in reality this sleight of hand does not resolve the problem at all and only begs the question. For if God gives this prevenient grace to everybody, we must ask: why do some respond positively to Christ and not others? What makes them to differ? Jesus Christ or something else? The problem of boasting is not removed, for if God gives grace to everybody and only some believe, then the heart that believes still thinks that it made the wiser decision by improving on grace while others did not. The person affirming prevenient grace still must ultimately attribute his repenting and believing to his own wisdom, prudence, sound judgment, or good sense. So in the Arminian belief system, they are not willing to confront the obvious question of why some believe and not others? The only answer I have ever heard to this question in all my years debating this was "because some believed". But, this avoids the question, because I did not ask them what they did, but why they did it? And the "why" seems to be a question that Jesus goes out of his way to answer. (John 8:46-47 & John 10:26)

There are many texts which affirm beyond doubt that regeneration is indeed monergistic ... that the implanting of the new heart is what gives rise to understanding, love of Christ and faith. One of the most important discussions in the Bible about this is where Jesus was speaking to some fellow Jews who did not believe in him (John 6:64) . He said to them:

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” ( 6:37) ”

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44)

"… no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." ( 6:65)

The reason I bring these three verses to your attention is because, they are spoken in the same context (John 6) and in this long discussion with Jesus and the Jews about faith these three verses are essentially speaking of the same issue. In fact they share more than one thing in common. They all use the phrase "come to me" and they each make a universal declaration ("no one" or "all"). When read in context the phrase "come to me" is spoken in the same breath as the word "faith". It is a synonym. Likewise the phrase "draws him" is used in parallel with the phrase "gives me" or "granted him". Our Lord declares that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44) and "All that the Father gives me [draws to Me] will come to me." (John 6:37). In other words, the passage simply states that no one will trust in or have faith in Jesus unless God grants it (John 6:65), and ALL to whom God grants (or gives/draws to Jesus) will believe. Not some of them, but all of them. This universal positive and universal negative means that we are forced to conclude that all that God draws to Jesus infallibly come to faith in him.

Just to demonstrate that "come to me" is identical to "faith" see that just prior to verse 37 Jesus says, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.” Here we observe that Jesus uses the phrase “believe in me” and “come to me” interchangeably. Even more clear is that the context of John 6:63-65 forces us to understand "come to me" to mean "believe in me" or "have faith in me". In verse 64 Jesus says, "But there are some of you who do not believe " For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

If we place these statements all together, (understanding that "come to me" and "believe in me" are synonymous), then the magnitude of the Jesus' words become evident, for it allows for no synergistic interpretation. And what does this have to do with regeneration? Well in verse 6:63 Jesus directly alludes to it: "It is the Spirit that quickens [gives life, regenerates]... No one will believe in Me unless God grants it... and ALL to whom God grants it will believe”. Jesus is making sure that no one thinks that anything apart from Jesus is what saves them. That even the very new heart we need to understand spiritual truth, love Jesus and believe is itself a gift of God. This text leaves no room for any other interpretation. This is profoundly important because it creates the inescapable conclusion that the quickening grace of God is invincible. This is why just prior to saying “no one can come to me UNLESS God grants it”, Jesus says, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail.” This means that it is the Spirit who raises our dead spirits to life, makes us born from above John 3:3, 6. The flesh, that is, our sinful nature, cannot regenerate itself and can do no redemptive good of itself, including believe the gospel until quickened by the Holy Spirit.

Faith, Jesus is saying, is not a product of our unregenerate human natures; It is, rather, the product of new life that only He can give us through the quickening work of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit alone who, uniting us to Christ, gives life to our dead souls that we may believe. Jesus is affirming the same truth to Nicodemus in John 3, using the same type of language. In verse 6 Jesus tells him, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” And unless one is born of the Spirit he can neither see nor enter the kingdom of God. Jesus never gives Nicodemus an imperative (command) to be born again, but instead, tells him what must happen to him for eternal life to be a reality. Belief springs from a change of nature, for the old man considers the gospel foolish and thus cannot comprehend it (1 Cor 2:14).

This does away completely also with the Arminian argument where they point to John 10, where Jesus says "when I am lifted up I will draw all men to myself". While we already demonstrated that "draw him" (v. 44) is parallel with "gives me" (v. 37) because it is spoken in the same context with multiple parallelisms so we concluded that ALL the Father gives (draws to) Christ come to him. But the Arminain must reach outside of this passage (out of context) to a completely different situation where Greeks approach Jesus. There is no indication that Jesus is referring to the same issue. In fact, when read in context, Jesus is telling them that he is fulfilling the promise to Abraham that he would become a father of many nations. Not only Jews but gentiles will be included, so Jesus is establishing that He will draw (not all men without exception) but all men without distinction (Jews and Gentiles). He is announcing that his coming coincides with the expansion of God's kingdom to include Gentiles, in large measure.

On a side note, it is interesting to note that the passage on regeneration in John 6:63-65 is one of the most explicitly Trinitarian passages in all of Scripture. It speaks of this work as the powerful, supernatural work of the Triune God. The Father grants faith in Christ the redeemer (John 6:65), through the quickening of the Holy Spirit by means of the spoken word (John 6:63). So the Spirit is the Agent and the word is the instrument used to germinate spiritual life in us, apart from which, no one would believe (V.65).

I have often heard preachers say to people, “all you need to do is believe,” as if this were the easiest thing in the world, but the natural man is unwilling to submit to the gospels' humbling terms. It is a massive affront to our pride to believe that we have no hope save in Jesus alone. J.I. Packer once wisely said, "Sinners cannot obey the gospel, any more than the law, without renewal of heart." We see this at work in this passage when, at the end of John chapter six many of those who previously were with Jesus left because his teaching was too hard, and only the twelve were left. Peter confesses belief however, and Jesus says to him, “…have I not chosen you?” But what is so hard about this passage that everyone else leaves Jesus? It is hard because the gospel of grace alone strips man of all hope that he could have to contribute something, be it ever so small, to his own salvation. Never underestimate the reality of our sinful nature deceiving us this way. The gospel forces us to see our own spiritual impotence and bankruptcy in contributing anything, or even lifting a finger toward our own salvation. But of those who do believe the gospel, we can know with certainty that the Holy Spirit has quickened them and is doing a work of grace in them. Trusting Christ is the immediate result of the new birth, not the cause of it, as John notes in his first epistle:

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God” (1 John 5:1)

It is also important to further understand that Jesus “will never cast out [those the Father has given Him].” (John 6:37). According to Jesus, those whom He draws are the same as those he will raise up at the last day (John 6:44). This is important because those who reject the perseverance of the saints, believing that Christ does not preserve us to the end, are in effect saying that we must somehow maintain our own justification before God. This is to believe that Jesus’ atonement for us is not sufficient for salvation.

This passage (John 6) is one of the most forceful passages in all of Scripture relating to the invincibility of saving grace. The grace of the Holy Spirit in regeneration is not only sufficient but efficient, unfailingly bringing about God’s desired result. We may resist the gospel when hearing the outward call and even resist stirrings of the Holy Spirit, but no one resists the inward quickening and call of God (Rom 8:30; 1 Cor 1:22-24). In the Old Testament sometimes God would discipline Israel by telling them their crops would fail even though they labored to sow seed. This is proof that all that we do in this world, such as planting crops, requires the prior blessing of God if it is to be fruitful.

Similarly Paul uses an agricultural metaphor when speaking of casting the seed of the gospel. He says, “I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.” This means that people need to hear the gospel in order to be saved, but we can preach till we are blue in the face and nothing will take root unless the Holy Spirit sovereignly applies that word to the heart that one might hear.

To use some biblical imagery, we cast the seed of the gospel indiscriminately because the Holy Spirit alone can “germinate” the word unto life in Christ. The fallow ground of our hearts must first be plowed up by God, for the soil of our heart is not good by nature, but only by grace. The seed will not find good soil until God makes it so. For Ezekiel the prophet says:

“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” (Ezekiel 36:25-27)

Notice that this passage demonstrates that in order for obedience to take place the Lord must first cleanse our hearts, put a new spirit in us and remove our hardened uncircumcised heart. No one believes and obeys while their heart is still stone. Our blind eyes must be opened, our deaf ears unstopped, and our corrupt nature supernaturally changed by the Holy Spirit, before we can begin to have any good thoughts about Christ. The Bible likens the new birth, or regeneration, to the first creation (2 Cor. 5:17). God let light shine into what was darkness. And God breathed life into lifeless man and then man, because of the new principle of life now within him, breathed and walked. Likewise regeneration can be likened to God's first breath in man, and faith, to Adam's first breath. The former is monergistic and the later, while it springs from the principle of grace that now exists within, is participatory. Both the creation and the maintaining are all of grace, but only God's breathing life into us (ex nihilo) is monergistic (that is, it is the work of God alone). When God brings forth something out of nothing, it is monergistic, but when we breathe (or have faith) as a result of God's act, we are now participating, so by definition this is not monergistic, but all springs forth from God's initial monergistic act of giving life from nothing.

"Regeneration is the fountain; sanctification is the river." - J. Sidlow Baxter

"...since you have been born again [by the agency of the Spirit], not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God [instrument]" 1 Peter 1:23

Important note: Some who oppose the biblical teaching on monergistic regeneration will argue that this cannot be true because no one can be regenerate and not saved. If regeneration precedes faith, they reason, then there is a time, be it ever so short, where one is regenerate but does not yet believe. But this is to misunderstand what regeneration precedes faith actually means. It does not temporally precede faith but rather causally. What do I mean? An example would be one pool ball striking another. Does one ball temporally strike the other first. No they both hit one another simultaneously ... YET the one which rolls has causal priority. The same could be said of heat and fire. Likewise when God, the Holy Spirit, through the preaching of the word, opens our heart to the gospel and gives us new eyes to see the beauty, truth and excellency of Christ, our response is immediate.

"No sooner is the soul quickened, than it at once discovers its lost estate, is horrified thereat, looks for a refuge, and believing Christ to be a suitable one, flies to him and reposes in him." -C.H. Spurgeon

"Faith in the living God and his Son Jesus Christ is always the result of the new birth, and can never exist except in the regenerate. Whoever has faith is a saved man." C.H. Spurgeon


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To: MarDav

“I have experienced those so focused on the doctrine of election that they felt it unnecessary to preach the gospel”


And yet the greatest preachers in the world, and all of the reformers, all preached these doctrines. Gospel preaching isn’t taken out. After all, the Gentiles heard the preaching of the Gospel, and those who were ordained, believed.

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

“introducing an open to all view of salvation.”


Taken logically as a whole with all the scripture, we cannot conclude that God draws all men alike, since the Jews who disbelieved weren’t drawn at all. They simply did not receive it from the Father to believe in the first place.

Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So, if we take your position seriously, what you are basically proposing is that among those who DO receive it to believe, some of those will still NOT believe in Jesus Christ, and therefore will perish. Which makes one wonder what is the point in God revealing Himself to some, and not to others, in the first place.

I’ll also add one more observation. The existence of a command for all to believe, or any command at all, does not imply a moral ability in the hearer to obey it. After all, Christ tells people to “sin no more.” Yet, we know that this is impossible. He commands us to be “perfect” as our Father in heaven is “perfect,” yet this is not something that a person can accomplish using his own power. In fact, none of us even have any righteousness of our own. Our righteousness is imputed from Jesus Christ through faith. It is good to believe, and it is the 1st and great commandment, yet the scripture is clear that NO ONE seeks after God or loves Him:

Rom 3:9-11 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Yet, you would have us to believe that, yes, there are SOME people who do love God, who do seek Him, on some fundamental level that belongs wholly to them, which is NOT the work of God in regeneration.

But this, simply, is not what we are taught. God gives to us a new heart. This heart is not of our own doing, but is a complete change in the heart we had before.

Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It is God by whom our works are wrought in the first place:

Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

We are told to “work out our salvation,” yet we are told both the will and the doing is wrought by God in the first place, since it is a heart given to us by God which desires to do these things, despite the sin in our members:

Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And it is God who starts a work in us, and sees it through to completion:

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

There is no vain seeking after works in order to be chosen. We are chosen so that we produce fruit in the first place. Obedience, works, and faith are the direct product of the working of God who takes away our stony hearts and gives to us a new heart that is truly alive, born again through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, predestinated before the world began.

“Election did not seem to be on the mind of Christ so much as “Whosoever will.””


The doctrine of election was preached from the very beginning!

Joh_3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.


41 posted on 06/05/2013 3:13:49 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: American Constitutionalist

Acts 10:34 “So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,”

Furthermore, if God is righteousness, and “in him there is no darkness at all” (John 1:5), then he would not willingly send anyone to hell. Peter even reveals that in 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

If you think God willingly chooses to randomly send people to hell, you don’t understand the scriptures.


42 posted on 06/05/2013 3:28:40 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: Bryan24

“If you think God willingly chooses to randomly send people to hell, you don’t understand the scriptures.”


This isn’t a scriptural conclusion. You didn’t actually address the scriptures that have been presented or what has been told to you. No one is going to hell “randomly.” They’re going to hell because they are sinners. The fact is, this is true of all people. These scriptures here aren’t true JUST for the really bad people. It’s true for you and me before God snatches us out of the fire:

Rom 3:9-11 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Why is God unjust to condemn those who are utterly depraved to hell? If God is unjust in this, then He is unjust in creating anyone He knows in advance will never believe in Him and “choose life.”

But the true God is sovereign, and by His tender mercies has chosen for Himself from a fallen race His own peculiar people DESPITE their sins, just as He has always done from the very beginning. (Are the Jews a CHOSEN people or NOT?)


43 posted on 06/05/2013 3:38:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Bryan24
Interesting. I guess God really IS a respector of persons, since he picks and chooses who receives the Holy SPirit.

This statement reveals that you completely misunderstand "grace." It is precisely because God is no respecter of persons, but because of His grace that He chooses some and not others. It is His sovereign choice. No merit in a person influences God's choice to save, and nothing sinful in another that influences God's choice to allow some to remain in their unregenerate state. Remember John 1:12; those who did receive Christ did so, not because of their own will, or by any human motivation, but they were born, or received Christ, as a result of God's will (and this is referring to God's will of decree, or His sovereign will).

The Doctrines of Grace are richly displayed in John's Gospel. Another helpful passage in understanding this is Ephesians 1:3-11.

44 posted on 06/05/2013 3:40:04 PM PDT by good1 (Valiant for the Truth)
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To: American Constitutionalist
And since God created all things and this universe and he is the ruler of this universe why is it such a problem and stumbling block to believe that God does choose some and not choose others ?

But isn't that God's choice?

Eph. 2:8&9
Rom. 9:22-24
45 posted on 06/05/2013 3:44:35 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: American Constitutionalist
The reason why some can't except the doctrine of election is because they refuse to see how depraved the human nature really is.
There is no inherent good in humans as far as God's perspective is and no amount of keeping the law or doing good with make you acceptible in God's sight, never.


I agree. No one can understand salvation until they understand how helpless and hopelessly lost man is by our nature and are in need of a savior. In Adam all die!

But there are groups that claim to be Christians that profess works are enough to please God. If that's true, why did Jesus Christ have to die?
46 posted on 06/05/2013 3:51:29 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: American Constitutionalist
All we really know is that God made the choice because He wanted to, "who can slap His hand and say what have you done"?

But we also know that the Lord Jesus' bloodline went through Rahab the harlot too, she married Salmon and they had Boaz. Matt. 1:5
47 posted on 06/05/2013 4:03:23 PM PDT by ForAmerica (Texas Conservative Christian Black Man!)
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To: polishprince
But no one will

Scripture reference? I can point to at least one passage that says that spiritually dead people make the decision on their own, and God meets him after he starts that journey.

48 posted on 06/05/2013 4:45:13 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
As, at the very least, the usual means is through the preaching of the word.

I agree with you, I was just pointing out hearing the word of God and turning your life over to him is not the only way. You're right, God comes to us where we are planted. He used a very unconventional method on me. Regardless of how it happened, I am eternally grateful for the result, which is all that matters.

49 posted on 06/05/2013 5:01:14 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: Bryan24

Bryan,
Your use of the verse from acts 10:34 is taken way out of context....the context of the verse is to show that the gospel was not just for the Jews but for Gentiles as well. So your premise behind that verse does not stand.


50 posted on 06/05/2013 5:37:36 PM PDT by polishprince
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To: ShadowAce

Several for starters...being on the old I do not have access to materials so these are just from memory also will attach 2 links , one from beottner and the other from piper that explains the position very well.

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.iv.ii.html beottner

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/piper/depravity.html piper

Rom 3:10-12
John 6:44 the word draw in the Greek means literally to drag...
http://interlinearbible.org/john/6-44.htm John 6:44 in Greek
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1670&t=KJV STRONGS CONCORDANCE OF GREEK NUMBER 1670
Other verses which use the same word. James 2:6, John 21:6,11, Acts 16:19, Acts 21:30

back to other verses for no one seeking God
1cor 2:14
2 cor 4:4
eph 4:17-18
Isa 6:47
Rom 8:7-8
Jer 13:23
Matt 11:27
1 Sam 24:13
Matt 7:18


51 posted on 06/05/2013 6:31:33 PM PDT by polishprince
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To: polishprince

So... what method DOES he use to discriminate? To chose between on or the other means that he values on more than the other.

If God choses some for heaven, and choses others to send to hell.... well, the scriptures don’t teach that.


52 posted on 06/05/2013 7:17:11 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: ForAmerica
Essentially that's basically what I was trying to convey, in the end, or rather from the beginning it was God's choice all along.
53 posted on 06/05/2013 7:37:08 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: Bryan24
So ? those who reject Christ and God's salvation or even the devil is going to heaven ? or receive salvation ?
54 posted on 06/05/2013 7:39:02 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ShadowAce
It's not God sending them to hell, they are a part of the whole fallen human race.

55 posted on 06/05/2013 7:40:44 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: Bryan24
So ? what happen to Esau then ? the bible clearly says that God hated Esau but loved Jacob. Check out the whole chapter of Romans 9 then.

God says verse 13 " As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. "


56 posted on 06/05/2013 7:46:53 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ShadowAce
" ALL Scripture is useful for teaching and there are passages that indicate that all CAN approach Him if we accept His conditions. "

The only way that we could ever approach God is through and by the blood of Jesus Christ.
57 posted on 06/05/2013 7:48:33 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ShadowAce
* But no one will *

" Scripture reference? "

Why sure... here you go...
Yes, it's in the bible, God's own word.

Romans 3:11: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Psalm 53:2-3: 2. God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.

3. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalm 14:3: They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

" I can point to at least one passage that says that spiritually dead people make the decision on their own, and God meets him after he starts that journey. "

That's not what the bible says.

Ephesians 2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


That quickened or rather make alive is by and through the holy spirit.... not by man's efforts and strength.
Man's efforts is that is of the flesh, rotten, decay, corrupt, dead.
That is of the flesh is flesh, and that is of the spirit is spirit.
That of the flesh is carnal and is at emmity at God, at war with God.

This what Jesus had to say about it.

John

3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Can you ? make your self be born ? or born again ? it's the work of God's spirit alone.

58 posted on 06/05/2013 8:12:12 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

One needs to study the etymology of faith and how and when it is used in Scripture.

After regeneration of the human spirit, when we are “born again”, we now have a human spirit which is alive to God, which He then has chosen to indwell as His Temple,...His dwelling place.

Inside that dwelling place, He continues to sanctify our soul,...i.e. He cleans up our scarred soul from when we had been unsaved and scarred our thinking processes.

He performs this when we study His Word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. This type of faith is also known as Bible doctrine.

We develop Bible doctrine in us by hearing the Word of God and allowing God the Holy Spirit to sanctify our soul via our human spirit while we remain in fellowship with Him.

It is inaccurate to say we receive saving faith after we are regenerated. He provides that faith to us and when we receive it and accept Him in our volition, after His calling, then our faith is accredited to us as something that is righteous.

Our initial faith is then efficacious for salvation, a work provided by His grace to us without anything we might do to earn it. If we try to earn it, we void our faith in Him.


59 posted on 06/05/2013 8:38:59 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Okay, call me simple but I’ve never fully understood why it is often worded as “In” Christ. Several times even in the Bible it speaks of being in Christ. I understand being “for” “of” “with” but why is it worded to be “IN” Christ. And on the subject, how could we have been chosen IN Him before we were even created? Were we spirits in the sky first and given bodies later?


60 posted on 06/06/2013 3:19:08 AM PDT by kelly4c (http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=2900389%2C41#help)
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