Jesus Teaches that Regeneration Precedes Faith

Monergism.com ^ | John Hendryx

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“I have experienced those so focused on the doctrine of election that they felt it unnecessary to preach the gospel”

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And yet the greatest preachers in the world, and all of the reformers, all preached these doctrines. Gospel preaching isn’t taken out. After all, the Gentiles heard the preaching of the Gospel, and those who were ordained, believed.

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

“introducing an open to all view of salvation.”

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Taken logically as a whole with all the scripture, we cannot conclude that God draws all men alike, since the Jews who disbelieved weren’t drawn at all. They simply did not receive it from the Father to believe in the first place.

Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So, if we take your position seriously, what you are basically proposing is that among those who DO receive it to believe, some of those will still NOT believe in Jesus Christ, and therefore will perish. Which makes one wonder what is the point in God revealing Himself to some, and not to others, in the first place.

I’ll also add one more observation. The existence of a command for all to believe, or any command at all, does not imply a moral ability in the hearer to obey it. After all, Christ tells people to “sin no more.” Yet, we know that this is impossible. He commands us to be “perfect” as our Father in heaven is “perfect,” yet this is not something that a person can accomplish using his own power. In fact, none of us even have any righteousness of our own. Our righteousness is imputed from Jesus Christ through faith. It is good to believe, and it is the 1st and great commandment, yet the scripture is clear that NO ONE seeks after God or loves Him:

Rom 3:9-11 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Yet, you would have us to believe that, yes, there are SOME people who do love God, who do seek Him, on some fundamental level that belongs wholly to them, which is NOT the work of God in regeneration.

But this, simply, is not what we are taught. God gives to us a new heart. This heart is not of our own doing, but is a complete change in the heart we had before.

Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It is God by whom our works are wrought in the first place:

Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

We are told to “work out our salvation,” yet we are told both the will and the doing is wrought by God in the first place, since it is a heart given to us by God which desires to do these things, despite the sin in our members:

Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And it is God who starts a work in us, and sees it through to completion:

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

There is no vain seeking after works in order to be chosen. We are chosen so that we produce fruit in the first place. Obedience, works, and faith are the direct product of the working of God who takes away our stony hearts and gives to us a new heart that is truly alive, born again through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, predestinated before the world began.

“Election did not seem to be on the mind of Christ so much as “Whosoever will.””

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The doctrine of election was preached from the very beginning!

Joh_3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

[Bryan24]

Acts 10:34 “So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,”

Furthermore, if God is righteousness, and “in him there is no darkness at all” (John 1:5), then he would not willingly send anyone to hell. Peter even reveals that in 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

If you think God willingly chooses to randomly send people to hell, you don’t understand the scriptures.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“If you think God willingly chooses to randomly send people to hell, you don’t understand the scriptures.”

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This isn’t a scriptural conclusion. You didn’t actually address the scriptures that have been presented or what has been told to you. No one is going to hell “randomly.” They’re going to hell because they are sinners. The fact is, this is true of all people. These scriptures here aren’t true JUST for the really bad people. It’s true for you and me before God snatches us out of the fire:

Rom 3:9-11 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Why is God unjust to condemn those who are utterly depraved to hell? If God is unjust in this, then He is unjust in creating anyone He knows in advance will never believe in Him and “choose life.”

But the true God is sovereign, and by His tender mercies has chosen for Himself from a fallen race His own peculiar people DESPITE their sins, just as He has always done from the very beginning. (Are the Jews a CHOSEN people or NOT?)

[good1]

Interesting. I guess God really IS a respector of persons, since he picks and chooses who receives the Holy SPirit.

This statement reveals that you completely misunderstand "grace." It is precisely because God is no respecter of persons, but because of His grace that He chooses some and not others. It is His sovereign choice. No merit in a person influences God's choice to save, and nothing sinful in another that influences God's choice to allow some to remain in their unregenerate state. Remember John 1:12; those who did receive Christ did so, not because of their own will, or by any human motivation, but they were born, or received Christ, as a result of God's will (and this is referring to God's will of decree, or His sovereign will).

The Doctrines of Grace are richly displayed in John's Gospel. Another helpful passage in understanding this is Ephesians 1:3-11.

[ForAmerica]

And since God created all things and this universe and he is the ruler of this universe why is it such a problem and stumbling block to believe that God does choose some and not choose others ?

But isn't that God's choice?

Eph. 2:8&9
Rom. 9:22-24

[ForAmerica]

The reason why some can't except the doctrine of election is because they refuse to see how depraved the human nature really is.
There is no inherent good in humans as far as God's perspective is and no amount of keeping the law or doing good with make you acceptible in God's sight, never.

I agree. No one can understand salvation until they understand how helpless and hopelessly lost man is by our nature and are in need of a savior. In Adam all die!

But there are groups that claim to be Christians that profess works are enough to please God. If that's true, why did Jesus Christ have to die?

[ForAmerica]

All we really know is that God made the choice because He wanted to, "who can slap His hand and say what have you done"?

But we also know that the Lord Jesus' bloodline went through Rahab the harlot too, she married Salmon and they had Boaz. Matt. 1:5

[ShadowAce]

But no one will

Scripture reference? I can point to at least one passage that says that spiritually dead people make the decision on their own, and God meets him after he starts that journey.

[randog]

As, at the very least, the usual means is through the preaching of the word.

I agree with you, I was just pointing out hearing the word of God and turning your life over to him is not the only way. You're right, God comes to us where we are planted. He used a very unconventional method on me. Regardless of how it happened, I am eternally grateful for the result, which is all that matters.

[polishprince]

Bryan,
Your use of the verse from acts 10:34 is taken way out of context....the context of the verse is to show that the gospel was not just for the Jews but for Gentiles as well. So your premise behind that verse does not stand.

[polishprince]

Several for starters...being on the old I do not have access to materials so these are just from memory also will attach 2 links , one from beottner and the other from piper that explains the position very well.

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.iv.ii.html beottner

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/piper/depravity.html piper

Rom 3:10-12
John 6:44 the word draw in the Greek means literally to drag...
http://interlinearbible.org/john/6-44.htm John 6:44 in Greek
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1670&t=KJV STRONGS CONCORDANCE OF GREEK NUMBER 1670
Other verses which use the same word. James 2:6, John 21:6,11, Acts 16:19, Acts 21:30

back to other verses for no one seeking God
1cor 2:14
2 cor 4:4
eph 4:17-18
Isa 6:47
Rom 8:7-8
Jer 13:23
Matt 11:27
1 Sam 24:13
Matt 7:18

[Bryan24]

So... what method DOES he use to discriminate? To chose between on or the other means that he values on more than the other.

If God choses some for heaven, and choses others to send to hell.... well, the scriptures don’t teach that.

[American Constitutionalist]

Essentially that's basically what I was trying to convey, in the end, or rather from the beginning it was God's choice all along.

[American Constitutionalist]

So ? those who reject Christ and God's salvation or even the devil is going to heaven ? or receive salvation ?

[American Constitutionalist]

It's not God sending them to hell, they are a part of the whole fallen human race.

[American Constitutionalist]

So ? what happen to Esau then ? the bible clearly says that God hated Esau but loved Jacob. Check out the whole chapter of Romans 9 then.

God says verse 13 " As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. "

[American Constitutionalist]

" ALL Scripture is useful for teaching and there are passages that indicate that all CAN approach Him if we accept His conditions. "

The only way that we could ever approach God is through and by the blood of Jesus Christ.

[American Constitutionalist]

* But no one will *

" Scripture reference? "

Why sure... here you go...
Yes, it's in the bible, God's own word.

Romans 3:11: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Psalm 53:2-3: 2. God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.

3. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalm 14:3: They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

" I can point to at least one passage that says that spiritually dead people make the decision on their own, and God meets him after he starts that journey. "

That's not what the bible says.

Ephesians 2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


That quickened or rather make alive is by and through the holy spirit.... not by man's efforts and strength.
Man's efforts is that is of the flesh, rotten, decay, corrupt, dead.
That is of the flesh is flesh, and that is of the spirit is spirit.
That of the flesh is carnal and is at emmity at God, at war with God.

This what Jesus had to say about it.

John

3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Can you ? make your self be born ? or born again ? it's the work of God's spirit alone.

[Cvengr]

One needs to study the etymology of faith and how and when it is used in Scripture.

After regeneration of the human spirit, when we are “born again”, we now have a human spirit which is alive to God, which He then has chosen to indwell as His Temple,...His dwelling place.

Inside that dwelling place, He continues to sanctify our soul,...i.e. He cleans up our scarred soul from when we had been unsaved and scarred our thinking processes.

He performs this when we study His Word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. This type of faith is also known as Bible doctrine.

We develop Bible doctrine in us by hearing the Word of God and allowing God the Holy Spirit to sanctify our soul via our human spirit while we remain in fellowship with Him.

It is inaccurate to say we receive saving faith after we are regenerated. He provides that faith to us and when we receive it and accept Him in our volition, after His calling, then our faith is accredited to us as something that is righteous.

Our initial faith is then efficacious for salvation, a work provided by His grace to us without anything we might do to earn it. If we try to earn it, we void our faith in Him.

[kelly4c]

Okay, call me simple but I’ve never fully understood why it is often worded as “In” Christ. Several times even in the Bible it speaks of being in Christ. I understand being “for” “of” “with” but why is it worded to be “IN” Christ. And on the subject, how could we have been chosen IN Him before we were even created? Were we spirits in the sky first and given bodies later?