Posted on 06/13/2013 12:40:22 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
Exactly, D-fendr.
Thank you for your manifest good will. Refreshing.
Did you know that The Catholic Reporter is NOT Catholic?
I wouldn’t give them the time of day.
I have never interpreted the Fatima Prayer as referring to those most grievous (and serial) sinners who wantonly and irrevocably chose to implement the devil’s most grievous intentions while on earth...true agents of Satan...no more capable of genuine repentance than is Lucifer himself. To say that they are — other than solely out of a fear of eternal punishment — sounds like bleeding-heart wishful thinking to me. Gosnell and others on your list essentially passed through the one-way gateway to hell while still living and breathing on this earth.
It has NEVER been Catholic theology that God determines whom's saved and whom's not.
Catholics have always (argued, anyway) that it is The Church that saves and without The Church one couldn't be saved.
Thus; what you say now is a reformed thought process.
Blessings to you too!
Just a note: I guess you meant Catholics and non-catholics
It is God who saves through the Church, which is the body of Christ.
This is the most accurate description. However, you don't hear much about how one is saved because everyone is too busy being worried about offending others who practice another religion or don't practice a religion at all.
If it weren't for the misunderstanding with the Pope's recent, infamous "Atheists are Redeemed" homily, we would have never heard exactly what the Church teaches regarding the necessity of salvation through the Church. And even with that we had the priest who was supposedly clearing up that misunderstanding referring to original sin as *so-called* "original sin".
Is it any wonder that no one knows what the Church really teaches? Many may not like what the author of this article said, but there is a reason why he could write that view of the Pope/the Church.
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Just a note: I guess you meant Catholics and non-catholics
Children of the same Triune God. The Father, Son & Holy Spirit.
Unlikely.
marshmallow and ebb tide posted the two most recent ones (April 21 and April 29). Hey guys, how did you discover the John Allen articles that you each posted?
The problem with your line of thinking is that it places the burden of salvation on the sinner, not on God. Gosnell or whoever doesn’t have to be capable of repentance on their own, because, if it happens, it will happen through the power of God, not through their own efforts. Remember, sometimes God chooses to step in and change the hearts of even the most despicable men, not because they deserve it, but because it demonstrates the glory, mercy, and sovereignty of God.
Keep in mind that this is not restricted to card-carrying pew-sitting parishioners. The Catechism (Link) puts it well:
"Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."
"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.
You can easily see that that deals with the salvation of other Christians outside the membership rolls of a parish, yet not outside the Church (whether they know it or not.)
Saying "Who saves, God or the Church?" is analogous to saying, "Who saves, God or Christ?"
Christ IS God. The Church IS the Body of Christ.
"In hope, the Church prays for "all men to be saved." (Catechism link)
and
This is not Universalism; it does not require, or even hint, that Hell might be empty or have no inhabitants except Satan and his bodiless hordes of demons.
Hell is a hot possibility for anyone, and a terrifying one.
That is why we pray without ceasing. You for me, me for you, all of us for the most despicable sinners --- save them, Lord, we pray.
"Especially those in most need of Thy mercy."
The Apostle’s Creed tells us, “He descended into Hades (to the realm of the Dead) and opened the portals to the Kingdom of God.
Fortunately, no one is in that situation. Christ founded a Church which will continue on this earth until the earth be no more.
Jesus identifies intimately and inseparably with the Church. In one passage it is called His bride; in other, His body. When Saul was persecuting the Church, Jesus asked him, "Saul, why are you persecuting Me? I am Jesus, Whom you persecute."
Amen!
Chapter and verse, please.
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