Posted on 08/08/2013 5:20:08 PM PDT by ebb tide
hey guys I’m a (honorary) Baptist not a Roman Catholic but I agree it looks, brothers and sisters, like there is a problem here. the word of the Lord is not ‘yes and no.’
I have to disagree a little. At least the way I see it, it's not that Pope Francis sees the Novus Ordo as superior to the EF, it's that Pope Francis sees liturgy altogether as a distraction from the Church's mission. If it was easier to use the EF, and get rid of the NO, he'd do that. It just happens, that is not easier. I almost imagine he's just assume get rid of Mass altogether and replace it with something, "more productive."
“I almost imagine he’s just assume get rid of Mass altogether and replace it with something, “more productive.”
You may be on to something. I’ve never seen an archbishop or Pope who is adverse to personally offering Holy Communion at his Masses.
Wow, and I thought the thread was already terrible and then you have to add your spurious opinion.
I don’t know which is worth. Catholic reporting on FR or Catholic reporting on the MSM.
Which church do you belong to?
Roman Catholic Church. How about you?
What did I do? I just said what I observed.
Same. Got any citations to back up your opinion?
Observed? You’ve been to mass with the pope?
You first, Bub.
You’re the one making the assertion that Pope Francis doesn’t like to perform mass... Where’s the evidence for this?
Didn’t say that. What I said was that he refuses to distribute Holy Communion at his Masses.
Look it up.
Your job is to prove that statement. Show me.
Why Pope Francis Doesn't Give Communion
Embarrassed?
Your source does not support your conclusion.
1. It was written less than 8 weeks into the papacy of Pope Francis. Apparently we can pick up his habits this early on into his papacy and form solid conclusions about them.
2. You oddly neglected to correctly distinguish between the consecration of the blessed sacrament. Francis, in every one of the masses he performs the consecration. What he sometimes refrains from doing is distributing the sacrament.
Why? As your own source says:
“He doesn’t wish to provide the photo opportunity by which those who are manifest sinners can use to justify their conduct”.
Something you did not manage to say earlier.
Your source needs to do some serious research into Catholicism so that they can properly understand what ‘consecration’ means.
You know what bugs me about all this traditionalist navel-gazing? There’s a disturbingly ultramontanist tendency to minutely dissect every little statement and preference of Pope Francis and treat him as this superhuman legislator who can change the entire direction of the Church on a whim.
Does it make any difference what Francis’s opinion of the traditional Mass is? Really?
Summorum Pontificum is the law of the land. The 1962 Missal was never abrogated. Period. So let’s use its provisions to push as hard as we can for continued growth of the Latin Mass. And then if anyone—bishop or Pope—tries to curtail that, we patiently but firmly say at every turn “Sorry Your Excellency, this Mass is part of our right and heritage as Catholics and we are sticking to it.”
That’s it. No stomping our feet, no whining, no schism, just stick to what is right and don’t be cowed, and don’t let your obedience to the Teaching Authority of the Church make you forget that that authority has its due limitations, which *need to be respected* by the Pope and everyone else.
The whole reason we are in this mess is that too many of us just laid down and took it when Paul VI and the bishops completely gutted the Mass of the Ages. We are wrong, and foolish, as Catholics to act like the Pope is an absolutist monarch who can do whatever he wants with regard to the sacred liturgy. That idea has already done untold damage to the Church. Let’s abolish that from your minds, and start thinking of the Pope—and all of us really—as *custodians* of sacred tradition.
I get what you're saying, but the bishops--good, bad, indifferent--aren't really even in the picture anymore according to the law. If a group comes together with a priest willing to say it...bam. That's all you need.
Now, I realize that bishops can make it uncomfortable and in some cases prohibitive to say the Latin Mass, but we have to shake off this indolent overreliance on centralized authority and just put out into the deep. We have to stop acting like we still have to grovel for the thing, instead of boldly claiming a right that all of us are entitled to.
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