Catholicism For Protestants

Catholic in the Ozarks ^ | August 22, 2013 | Shane Schaetzel

[Elsie]

Obviously some folks only care about repeating lies and slanders about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded and not about leading others to Christ.

Ah, shucks!

Just lead 'em to Mary; and SHE can do the harder part of getting them to her son.

After all; SHE is the Gatekeeper of prayers; right?

SHE gets to determine whether her son can be bothered with all the stuff that is coming his way.

[Elsie]

Grain??

[Elsie]

It's hard to say as a general statement, for there are HUNDREDs of different . <<<--- Something fell off!

Lemme try again.

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With the Mormons (to be precise, the members of The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - based in Salt Lake City) intent on being called “Christians” after so many years of eschewing that word, and despite the fact that there are so many fundamental theological differences between Christianity and Mormonism, I often wonder: 

How do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints feel about calling the members of its various spin-off sects Latter-Day Saints, Christians, or Mormons? Or about those sects calling themselves Mormons or Latter-Day Saints? (There was an earlier campaign by LDS to have journalism style books use the word “Mormon” to refer only to LDS, and not RLDS, FLDS, or other LDS sects).

For a man who bragged about holding things together, Joseph Smith, Jr. doesn’t appear go have done a good job of it during his lifetime. Wycam Clark’s “Pure Church of Christ” spun off in 1831. This trend continued. There were six LDS sects spawned in the 1830s, eight in the 1840s, two in the 1850s, and seven in the 1860s.

Do those responsible for the “Mormons are Christians” campaign consider these denominations to be Mormons or Latter-Day Saints? Surely many of these denominations are much closer to mainstream LDS than LDS is to Christianity. Many stick to Smith’s teachings and old temple endowment ceremonies.

Short Creek Community
Latter Day Church of Christ
Apostolic United Brethren
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness [sic] of Times
Church of the Lamb of God
Church of the New Covenant in Christ
Confederate Nations of Israel
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
School of the Prophets
Centennial Park
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Kingdom of God
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
The Church of the Firstborn and the General Assembly of Heaven

Blackmore/Bountiful Community
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Order of Enoch
Aaronic Order
Zion’s Order, Inc.
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite)
Community of Christ
Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite)
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Christ (Lion of God Ministry/Clarkite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Zion’s Branch)
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Fettingite) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ at Halley’s Bluff (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Restored) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ “With the Elijah Message” (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Hancock) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Burtite) (Hendrickite)
Church of Israel (Hendrickite)
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message (The Assured Way of the Lord) (Hendrickite)
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ (Strangite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite) (Strangite)
True Church of Jesus Christ Restored (Strangite)
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Whitmerite)

Or these defunct sects:

Pure Church of Christ (Clarkite)
Independent Church (Hotonite)
Church of Christ (Boothite)
Church of Christ (Parrishite)
Alston Church
Church of Christ (Chubbyite)
Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Church of Christ (Pageite)
True Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (this one was particularly curious - started by William Law, editor of The Nauvoo Expositor, just one of many sects started in opposition to plural marriage)
The Church of Zion (Godbeite)
United Order Family of Christ
Church of the Potter Christ
Church of the Firstborn (Morrisite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gibsonite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Most High
Church of the Christian Brotherhood
Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion (Rigdonite) Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Primative Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Christ (Aaron Smith)
Church of the Messiah (Adamsite)
Church of Christ (Wrightite)
Church of Christ (Whitmerite)
Church of Christ (Brewsterite)
The Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Congregation of Jehovah’s Presbytery of Zion
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gladdenite)
Independent Latter Day Saints of Nigeria
Independent Latter Day Saints of Ghana
Apostolic Divine Church of Ghana

Are members of those LDS groups “Mormons”? “Latter Day Saints?” “Christians?”

Do the folks in Salt Lake City have a problem with any of those groups, who believe in the restoration of the original church by Joseph Smith, calling themselves Mormons or Saints?

Most of these divisions in the Latter-Day Saint movement occurred over the issue of polygamy or succession of the Prophet. Sects broke off when Joseph Smith was still alive, and when Brigham Young was named prophet, because they didn’t believe in the practice of plural marriage – either publicly, or in some cases when it was practiced in private and denied in public.

Of course, there was the great split between Rocky Mountain Saints and Prairie Saints, when LDS members couldn’t agree on a successor prophet to Smith, Jr., and the church went to Utah, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania under Brigham Young, Sidney Rigdon (senior member of the First Presidency), James Strang, Lyman Wight, Alpheus Cutler, William Smith, David Whitmer (a BOM witness), or Joseph Smith III (son of Joseph Smith, Jr.). Almost all of these individuals still has multiple sects in existence that date to an 1844 decision about who should be the next President/Prophet of the church.

The Prairie Saints split into sects over the issue of whether Smith practiced polygamy. Rocky Mountain Saints had many, many spinoff sects after the 1890 Manifesto – groups that still practice plural marriage.

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Thanks to ScoutMaster for all the hard work here!

[Elsie]

Now that they no longer have a man in the political arena they want to push; they've remained quite under the radar.

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

November 8, 2012

Fellow MORMON Freeper Christians!!

 

I must apologize and ask for forgiveness from you all.

 

As you know, we at Headquarters NEVER tell you pew warmers how to vote. It says so right in our press releases. Anyway, we were ALL thrilled to the max when there were two – TWO! – MORMONs being touted in the primaries: Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman.

 

Talk in our upper chambers high above SLC was how our gods were favoring us with these men; who had prepared their entire lives for an opportunity to save this Nation; which so badly needs guidance: OUR guidance even! So naturally, I and the other twelve analyzed and discussed the situation.

 

Consensus was that the voters should listen to the inner urging and vote for the one they wanted; but that seemed to be leaving WAY too much to chance.

 

I decided, that since I am the ONLY man on earth that can hear GOD’s voice, that I would pray for wisdom and clarity in the matter.

 

I hadn’t used the fleece in a while, so I questioned GOD with a test. A paper, with Romney on one side and Huntsman on the other was to be placed by the air conditioning vent high above my desk in the sumptuous office the Full Tithers have provided.

When the air would kick in later in the evening, while I was home, the paper would be blown down and whomever GOD wanted would then be visible on the upper surface.

 

As you can probably guess, when I came in the next day, the paper had landed on my desk, with Mitt’s name on top.

Last night, I was staying late, praying to GOD about how it was even possible that Mitt lost, when the janitorial cleaning crew came in. Being surprised to find me here, they apologized for interrupting me. I said to them, “It mattereth not, as I was about to leave anyway.”

 

As I was going out the door, the foreman of the crew just happened to mention that my office is ALWAYS so neat and tiny, never anything out of place, that they barely have to do anything to tidy up. Then one of the sweepers said, “Except that time in the spring when we came in to clean and found a paper with Huntman’s name on the floor by your desk. We put it back on your desk and left.

 

 

Tommy M.

 

PS Keep praying that Huntsman will add an “H” to his name. Jon looks so dang effeminate!

 

Onward to 2016!!!

[Elsie]

And let's try THIS again!!

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GRAIN???

--

[CynicalBear]

>> Why should we believe Kloppenborg over Papias?<<

A couple of reason to start with. Eusebius, who was the only person to claim Papias mad that statement also called him “a man of small mental capacity” and in fact couldn’t verify the truth of his claim. Then there is Jerome who purportedly was given, although no proof again, a copy of a Hebrew manuscript, and who was said to have examined said manuscript backed off vouching for the authenticity of said manuscript. Kloppenborg was the example I gave but there are many more who discount what was claimed about what Papias said.

So basically there is no documentation of what Papias purportedly said and even those who claim he said it didn’t put much faith in the fact that he even said it.

[metmom]

A BIG one.

[count-your-change]

I suppose you can tell I’m accustomed to people being as subtle as drill instructor in their speech. In the future I’ll try to catch a few of the nuances.

[editor-surveyor]

It is the name that he declared to Moses; does he lie?

[editor-surveyor]

But do you believe all of his words?

You seem to be calling the majority of what he said “extraneous.”

[editor-surveyor]

I never expect a catholic to accept what is written in the word of God. You satisfy my expectations perfectly.

[Elsie]

That does have to happen occasionally!

[Elsie]

hard to tell; as #536 evaporated...

[Elsie]

You seem to be calling the majority of what he said “extraneous.”

It does seem that way; doesn't it.

But, Jesus WAS asked a DIRECT QUESTION and John 6:29 WAS a direct answer.

If there are ANY other things that MUST be done; then I guess NOW is as gooda time to discuss then as any.

[editor-surveyor]

You are parsing the very scripture that you posted here.

Part of it you accept, and part of it you call extraneous.

You apparently reject the fullness of his answer, and divide it into the acceptable part and the extraneous part.

[boatbums]

Right now I am loving the (In)sincere showing of christian love over the New Testament languages issue.

Love finds no pleasure in injustice done to others, but joyfully sides with the truth. (I Corinthians 13:6)

[verga]

but joyfully sides with the truth. (I Corinthians 13:6)

And that is why I am Catholic, a sincere LOVE of the truth.

[Elsie]

And that is why I am Catholic, a sincere LOVE of the truth.

Which is to say: the teachings of the Church.

--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(They're the same; you know...)

[Elsie]

...and part of it you call extraneous.

Which part is that?

[Elsie]

You are parsing the very scripture that you posted here.

PARSING??

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John 6:25-40

²⁵ When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

²⁶ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. ²⁷ Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

²⁸ Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

²⁹ Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

³⁰ So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? ³¹ Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’^[c]”

³² Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. ³³ For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

³⁴ “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

³⁵ Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. ³⁶ But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. ³⁷ All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. ³⁸ For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. ³⁹ And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. ⁴⁰ For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”