Posted on 09/17/2013 8:25:21 PM PDT by jodyel
"Unless You Eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and Drink His Blood You Have No Life In You"
Are these words of Jesus from John 6:53 to be taken literally or figuratively? The Roman Catholic Church teaches the context of John chapter six and the above headlined verse 53 are literal. Thus Jesus is giving absolute and unconditional requirements for eternal life. In fact, this literal interpretation forms the foundation for Rome's doctrine of transubstantiation -- the miraculous changing of bread and wine into the living Christ, His body and blood, soul and divinity. Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from the right hand of the Father when he elevates the wafer and whispers the words "Hoc corpus meus est." Catholics believe as they consume the lifeless wafer they are actually eating and drinking the living body and blood of Jesus Christ. This is a vital and important step in their salvation and a doctrine they must believe and accept to become a Catholic.
If priests indeed have the exclusive power to change finite bread and wine into the body and blood of the infinite Christ, and if indeed consuming His body and blood is necessary for salvation, then the whole world must become Catholic to escape the wrath of God. On the other hand, if Jesus was speaking in figurative language then this teaching becomes the most blasphemous and deceptive hoax any religion could impose on its people. There is no middle ground. Therefore the question of utmost importance is -- Was the message Jesus conveyed to the Jewish multitude to be understood as literal or figurative? Rome has never presented a good argument for defending its literal interpretation. Yet there are at least seven convincing reasons why this passage must be taken figuratively.
Counterfeit Miracle
There is no Biblical precedent where something supernatural occurred where the outward evidence indicated no miracle had taken place. (The wafer and wine look, taste and feel the same before and after the supposed miracle of transubstantion). When Jesus changed water into wine, all the elements of water changed into the actual elements of wine.
Drinking Blood Forbidden
The Law of Moses strictly forbade Jews from drinking blood (Leviticus 17:10-14) A literal interpretation would have Jesus teaching the Jews to disobey the Mosaic Law. This would have been enough cause to persecute Jesus. (See John 5:16)
Biblical Disharmony
When John 6:53 is interpreted literally it is in disharmony with the rest of the Bible. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you," gives no hope of eternal life to any Christian who has not consumed the literal body and blood of Christ. It opposes hundreds of Scriptures that declare justification and salvation are by faith alone in Christ.
Produces Dilemma
It appears that the "eating and drinking" in verse 6:54 and the "believing" in verse 6:40 produce the same result - eternal life. If both are literal we have a dilemma. What if a person "believes" but does not "eat or drink"? Or what if a person "eats and drinks" but does not "believe?" This could happen any time a non-believer walked into a Catholic Church and received the Eucharist. Does this person have eternal life because he met one of the requirements but not the other? The only possible way to harmonize these two verses is to accept one verse as figurative and one as literal.
Figurative In Old Testament
The Jews were familiar with "eating and drinking" being used figuratively in the Old Testament to describe the appropriation of divine blessings to one's innermost being. It was God's way of providing spiritual nourishment for the soul. (See Jeremiah 15:16; Isaiah 55:1-3; and Ezekiel 2:8, 3:1)
Jesus Confirmed
Jesus informed His disciples there were times when He spoke figuratively (John 16:25) and often used that type of language to describe Himself. The Gospel of John records seven figurative declarations Jesus made of Himself -- "the bread of life" (6:48), "the light of the world" (8:12), "the door" (10:9), "the good shepherd" (10:11), "the resurrection and the life" (11:25), "the way, the truth and the life" (14:6), and "the true vine" (15:1). He also referred to His body as the temple (2:19).
Words Were Spiritual
Jesus ended this teaching by revealing "the words I have spoken to you are spirit" (6:63). As with each of the seven miracles in John's Gospel, Jesus uses the miracle to convey a spiritual truth. Here Jesus has just multiplied the loaves and fish and uses a human analogy to teach the necessity of spiritual nourishment. This is consistent with His teaching on how we are to worship God. "God is Spirit and His worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). As we worship Christ He is present spiritually, not physically. In fact, Jesus can only be bodily present at one place at one time. His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.
When Jesus is received spiritually, one time in the heart, there is no need to receive him physically,
“His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.
Are you saying that God can do some miracles but is limited in the sorts of miracles he can perform?”
God’s greatest miracle involved hanging on a tree until dead and rising from the dead three days later. If there had been any other way to save us, He could’ve done it because HE wrote the rules. But the problem is He said that “without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.”
So yes, God limits Himself in the kinds of miracles He performs. It’s ridiculous to assert otherwise.
I might ask you the same, narses.
Jesus Christ is the expert and I am merely His follower.
Are you born again and filled with the Holy Spirit? That is the criteria for being saved...not Catholicism.
Mike Gendon is a former RC who was born again and left the Catholic church. He knows whereof he speaks.
Don’t give a biblical stance on Catholicism....just keep posting your nonsense.
Okay, then!
It is...They know it and we know it...
I think that is a good question for the person who wrote the article since he is the expert. Will see what he says.
As for my reply, Christ is nowhere bodily (physical) on the earth any longer. He is in heaven. The Holy Spirit is what resides now in the hearts of believers worldwide and directs them in wisdom and discernment. So I stand by Mike’s statement unequivocally.
God can do anything He likes. There is however no scriptural precedence for the Catholic mass. We know these things because the Spirit gives us wisdom to rightly discern in these matters. If one has not the Spirit, then one will believe anything.
?
That is symbolic, not literal.
This is also done in Baptist and other Protestant denominations with crackers and grape juice if one is a member of the church. It is called the Lord’s Supper and is done in remembrance of the Lord’s sacrifice. But everyone understands it is symbolic, not anything to do with the physical or actual body of Christ.
It is not the way of receiving Jesus.....the only way to receive Jesus is by placing your trust in Him, repenting of sin, and being filled with the Holy Spirit. It is done one time and one time only and not over and over again thru the taking of bread and wine.
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
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this from John 6 is for all demanding Bible reference.
1.in Scripture,a parable is always identified as a parable.
It is plainly stated as a quote”this is a hard TEACHING”.
2.Christ declares what is necessary and HE does not say a wafer whatever simply represents His Body and Blood.
HE states exactly what it is.
3.if this were a simple parable,why did he NOT call the ones leaving and “mumuring” BACK to get an explanation that this is only a parable ?
He even questions the remaining ones asking them if they’re going to leave HIM now the same.
please pay attention as this IS another mystery of our faith.
It IS His Body and Blood.
especially when they SAY its the physical body and blood of Christ?
And as we have said here, salvation, this is not to be taken literally. This is symbolic and refers to the Spirit.
However, those who do not have the Spirit will also not have the understanding of the verse in Scripture.
See my previous post regarding the Lord’s Supper.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
There are only two options here...Jesus had to have been speaking literally in both cases OR he had to have been speaking spiritually...
If Jesus turns into flesh and blood, you haven't been thirsty a day in your life since you became a Catholic...
And we all know the answer to that one...
When one is filled with the Spirit, one is given wisdom and discernment and one is not given to these types of questions. It is abundantly clear to a Spirit-filled believer exactly what the passage means.
The fact you cannot see it lets us know immediately that you are not born again and that is what we want you to have. We want you to have no doubt whatsoever about anything in Scripture and that kind of wisdom can only be imparted by the Holy Spirit.
Since all Christians receive the Holy Spirit, all Christians forgive or not, sins...
You will be there, Kitten, if you are born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.
Twisted, perverted, out of context scripture...
We finally agree on something...
Are your arms waving in the air? Unfortunately this is not youtube.
There have been numerous attacks by Catholics on Protestants in the past week or so. Are you critical of them too?
“Are you aware that almost the entire Mass is made up of Scripture?”
Yes, and used without the discernment of the Spirit and used to fit what Catholics believe and not used for what the passage actually means.
But, again, unless one is born again of the Spirit one will not get that. As I have said many times, what you first need is the Spirit of God living inside of you, then wisdom and discernment to understand scripture will follow. This is the point that separates us.
You asked me in another thread, salvation, how we can know for sure and I am saying to you again...because we have believed and because the Spirit has entered our hearts. Without Him we are just like you...flailing about in the darkness with no way to be sure.
Therein is the difference. Ask Jesus to forgive you and allow the Spirit to come into your heart and fill it up. Have you ever sincerely asked this? Or have you only paid lip service to it thru Catholic ritual? It is the only way.
We truly are not your enemy. We truly want you to be filled with God’s Spirit in the way given to us in Scripture. We are not here to attack anything, but only to show the gross error made when man attempts to understand something apart from the Spirit. How can a man understand things of God without the Spirit of God living in him?
Once you are filled with the Holy Spirit, salvation, you will never again need to ask...how can you be sure...how can I know. There will never, ever again be any doubt in your heart or in your mind.
This is what we want for all Catholics here.
ping
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