Posted on 09/24/2013 2:07:47 PM PDT by Rashputin
A discussion worth having? ... Looks more like a stealth effort to get Christians arguing with each other so the demons can do their damnedest with less opposition.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus wasn’t baptised. He admitted his sinful state, recognized Jesus as Lord and asked for mercy.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus wasn’t baptised. He admitted his sinful state, recognized Jesus as Lord and asked for mercy.
I’m just trying to discuss and illuminate the alternatives to Catholicism since there is a constant stream of articles about the errors of Catholicism. Shouldn’t the critical aspects of the alternatives be discussed in like manner?
Baptism is a public celebration to celebrate salvation, an internal event. (simply put)
Baptism is not necessary for salvation.
Your approach has a definite sulfurous scent ...
The thief on the cross COULDN’T be baptized, obviously, but would if he had been able to. God doesn’t confine himself to a box.
A good part of Christ’s disciples’ ministry was baptizing the masses; so much so that they surpassed the numbers being baptized by John the Prophet. This was not just some vain errand.
Would the attitude to refuse to be baptized be a bar to salvation, then? How about a refusal to repent?
Neither were the Old Testament believers (Remember the verse in Romans calling Abraham “The Father of our Faith”)?
The HOLY SPIRIT came upon Cornelius and his family before they were baptized, which shocked everyone present.
Act 10:42
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44
¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Yet again?
Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)
No, it's the first commandment that God gives to new believers. It's a public testimony of the change that has occurred in their lives.
The thief on the cross is a clear example of a man being saved without being baptised. Thus death bed converts that couldn't be baptised, need not worry. The ceremony doesn't stand in the way of salvation for those that believe. But being the first command, all believers should be baptised if possible.
The public practice of baptismal ceremonies is a modern invention. Early converts were baptized immediately upon receiving the Gospel, like an emergency medical procedure for the critically ill, in the setting in which they were found, whether public or private (the believing eunuch that Phillip baptized in on the road.)
Our salvation is therefore not now possessed. Salvation is conditional; we will be saved if we hold fast the true faith (Heb. 3:12-14), if we remember the basic doctrines which comprise the Gospel (1 Tim. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:1,2), and if we do those things which are in keeping with such a great hope (2 Peter 1:10).
Hold on their slick....Ephesians speaks of us being sealed by the Holy Spirit. No where in the Bible does it ever say we are unsealed, nor is there anything we can do to unseal it.
If we could, how would you know when you were unsealed, and what would you have to do to get it back??
The theif on the cross died under the Old Law. As did Abraham, Moses and the prophets.
Say what you will about baptism is or is not essential unto Salvation; but bringing the theif into the conversation is useless.
Baptism is not necessary for salvation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And neither is faith.
(You see - as you get to cherry-pick and ignore scriptures that say baptism is necessary - I get to do the same with faith. Or repentence. Or confessing. Or whatever.)
big caution to all who read this post:
this article is put out by a group that teaches:
1. Jesus is not God
2. Jesus did not exist before His birth
3. Jesus needed to save Himself
4. The Holy Spirit is a force or power and not God
obviously these beliefs contradict historical Christian faith as expressed in the Nicene and Apostle’s Creeds.
I have been in the baptism committee at our church for years now and I have personally seen a person's life turn around days or weeks before that person was baptized. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, but every saved person must follow Jesus' instructions and be baptized.
Christ WARNED .... Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL things.... This was before He gave Peter the authority with a key. Funny few ever get around to the ‘Key of David’.
I fully expect a whole bunch of belly aching and whining when what Christ said would be takes place and the sleepers are still asleep being awaken and out hunting the ‘oil’. (Parable of the 10 virgins)
But then is it the spirit of slumber, God promised for some? As Christ said I have foretold you ALL things, nothing new under the sun/Son, what has been will be again .......
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