I am wrong a lot, but don’t see how Catholicism being a protestant religion would logically make Martin Luther, the Catholic priest, predate the birth of Christ.
Catholicism was in protest against any heresy you can care to name. (Let us choose the Roman Paganism).
Such a protest against paganism began based on the evidence that the Church Fathers gave of the life of Jesus and how that related to the Old Testament scriptures.
Catholicism was in protest against any heresy you can care to name. (Let us choose the Roman Paganism).
Catholicism was NEVER "in protest" about anything. The early Church fathers deprecated heresy, but all faiths do. Also, Catholicism came into being right during and in the middle of the Roman era. And it wasn't a protest at all. The Catholic Church grew because the early Church fathers fostered it and nurtured it.
Such a protest against paganism began based on the evidence that the Church Fathers gave of the life of Jesus and how that related to the Old Testament scriptures.
Again, I haven't a CLUE as to what you are trying to say. Jesus WAS the fulfillment of the Old Testament. He was the promised Messiah.
Christ fulfilled through the new covenant, not protested.
And Don, do you want to go to the Church Fathers?
Let’s go straight to scripture and John 6. There’s no way around Christ stating several times eat my flesh and drink my blood and many left... He didn’t say you missed my point, I was kidding or I meant the word (which would have been the OT, since nothing had been written or requested to be written, except through John). He asked the disciples if they wanted to leave too. He wasn’t playing, he was for real. This was no allegory, parable, etc..
Of course you know Paul spoke on being guilty of the body and blood of the Lord re: receiving unworthily.
It could be spun anyway you want, translation error (but where did you get the word); The Catholics put that in and that’s a prohibition of Revelation re: adding, removing (I know you don’t want to go there with the reformers). Remember, 10 years after Luther they were having huge problem between themselves. At the Marburg Colloquy Luther went off regarding the Eucharist because he felt they went too far, only for the Zwingli crew to get concession from Calvin (who was right of Bullinger), at the Tigurinus consensus (Calvinists couldn’t understand why he pushed for it, especially with Bucer’s doings in the background).
I’m sure we agree that Luther thought he knew better, he wasn’t the first, will not be the last. But also, all the reformers, if they came back today to view their congregations, would be in shock and not recognize them.
Even Melanchthon wrote his mother that the Protestant religion is the best to live by, but the Catholic the best to die in.
I grew up in the South as a Baptist (down the line, at least four days a week in church for bible study and meetings with the grandparents, visiting the sick and shut in, still do, Sunday school, later teaching, dinner after service, the whole nine); But I was blessed with a pastor, sinner though he was, he was a man, who never dissed other faiths protestant or otherwise, loved Mary and not just on Christmas and really struggled re: Lord’s Supper because he knew there was more, but couldn’t lose his church, or take the embarrassment of moving the church back to it’s roots or teaching more about the fathers.
He thought about his teachers at seminary, his fellow pastors, the family... he would be ostracized. He confided that when many came to him re: marriage, divorce, dying spouse, or even a fellow pastor on his preaching on a certain portion of scripture with a different take... where do you go? Who do you ask? You dig in the scripture and pray/fast and trust you get a word from the Lord or a confirmation through others or a situation.
But we had people some would call blue bloods on the other side of town, till this day I don’t know which denomination folks outside always ranted about, I knew it wasn’t Catholics. Maybe Pres, Methodists, etc..
But we were more worried of being called out from the pulpit, as my pastor did with vigor, on being seen at the juke joint with a woman not your wife or gambling or spotted kissing a boy with your skirt rolled up higher than you left home with (down South, the grapevine was lethal and you may get whipped or admonished 6 times before you made it home).
Wouldn’t trade it for anything. The preaching, hymns, bible drills, etc.. laid a foundation towards the truth. It’s sad many kids today will never have that foundation, much less build upon it and live it.
The typology from scripture itself...
Moses and the chair (we see what Korah, a Levite, with Dathan and Abiram tried to do re: Hey, we’re all holy, who do you think you are to lord it over us? We know better. Cut to hole in the ground, see ya). See, first they went the we’re concerned about you Moses, we can help out; We don’t think God meant for only you to judge from the chair re; disputes, handing down the word, rules. Mind you, God had already given them roles of service, it wasn’t good enough. They had to lead and thought they knew better than God where they were to serve. So obviously, since they called Moses and Aaron out in public, with 250 leaders and representatives of the congregation (so they had to be right you know), they were meeting behind the scenes and plotting ahead of this. It always turns ugly and the truth comes out. So Moses give them what they wanted, told them to fill the censers and incense (priest duties), and let the Lord choose. As I said earlier, it didn’t go well. After picking through the charred bodies of the 250 for the censers, because they were holy, they hammered them into plates on the altar to remind the congregation. God chose Moses, he didn’t choose himself.
The next day, people had the nerve to run their mouths, accusing Moses and Aaron of killing them (I would have been dug in deep, somewhere). Pure blindness and obstinacy. Like I said, nothing new. Again, God said get away from them... Knowing what might come next, Moses asks Aaron to burn incense in a censer to intercede for them, make atonement... Plague. Aaron stands between the dead and the living and God stops it.
To go further, the tribes rods were brought to the holy place and Aaron’s blossomed and grew ripe almonds, hence the priesthood, shut up the congregation, done.
Then we have Balaam wanting to do his own thing after God told him no the first time. Hey, the second offering of bling from the king was too much to resist. Yeah, he didn’t curse Israel and couldn’t if he tried... but he told them how to infiltrate and cause God’s people to sin... therefore invoking the wrath of God upon them (their inside secrets and their past soft spots re; seduce them with the foreign women, then on to Baal or other foreign worship, etc.). Even the ass knew that wasn’t going to work out.
So protest and revolt is nothing new. It started in the garden, because Eve knew better... and her hubby, who was to watch over her and the garden, shirked his duty and went along. Just like the 250 upstanding elders in the congregation re: Korah, Dathan and Abiram; Just like Balaam, who knew better and those throughout history that knew and know better.
We pray the Lord will lead us to all truth.