SSPX disrupts interfaith service at Buenos Aires cathedral

The Deacon's Bench ^ | November 13, 2013 | Deacon Greg Kandra

[Alberta's Child]

Good for them. I applaud them.

Catholics ought to do the same.

[faithhopecharity]

well, I do not subscribe to that viewpoint.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Abortion-enthusiast, apostate Catholics are the foulest of the foul; not to be compared with devout, morally upright, Torah-loving Jews. Observant Catholics have more in common morally with observant Jews than we do with, e.g. Andrew Cuomo or Nazi Pelosi.

[ebb tide]

Why did the Jewish Lodge organize a Jewish memorial for Jewish victims in Catholic churches?

Argentine Catholic organizations wondered how it was possible that a Jewish organization, also a lodge, might hold a memorial service in the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. The Archdiocese might have helped out differently because of space problems. But why was a liturgical space was made available in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament of Christ Himself? As Cardinal Bergoglio was keynote speaker at the event, it is clear who made ​​the misappropriation, Pagina Catolica even speaks of the possible "desecration" of the Cathedral. In fact, with the "memorial liturgy" a kind of worship was celebrated. Since the event has been running for several years, there are already rehearsed rites similar acts. Before the altar there sat several representatives of Christian denominations (Lutheran, Prebyterianer, Methodist) next to the Cardinal. The official program book with the symbol of B'nai B'rith and the coat of arms of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires is called an "Inter-religious Liturgy." Six candles symbolize in this Holocaust memorial ritual each of the six million Jewish victims. Rabbi Alejandro Avruj lit each candle along with the representative of a Christian denomination or a Jewish organization. The last of the six candles he lit together with Cardinal Bergoglio.

B’nai B’rith “Memorial Liturgy” in the Cathedral of Buenos Aires With Cardinal Bergoglio

[faithhopecharity]

Well, I do understand that since Vatican II there has been a much more visible ecumenical outreach by the RC Church, than prior thereto.
This outreach is not unprecedented, however.
The Council of Florence was a meeting with the separated Eastern Orthodox churches. Pope Eugene IV not only invited them, but shared a prayer with them.
and
the Council of Trent invited Protestants to attend and participate, assuring them safe passage and leave at any time they wished, etc.
And several Popes have held discussions with, and at times been moved to assist or aid, Jewish people, going back even further in time than the above.

Now then, yes...we have indeed seen a widening of these types of activities since Vatican II. But the idea that the RC Church should shut itself up and not share anything with anybody else on planet earth is ludicrous and does not hold up too well when we examine the real history.

The easiest ecumenicism or sharing, albeit still not without challenges, is with Orthodox, Protestant, and Jewish believers... the Biblical faith traditions, which all pray to the same God (however understood, nobody contradicts the basic fact that it is all the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), and which share essentially the same moral code or teachings.

Even these outreach efforts are difficult for all concerned.
This is why I do not feel very comfortable with ecumenical outreach to non-Biblical traditions, groups which do not pray to the same One True (Biblical) God.

And I am especially worried about any outreaches to Islam, which explicitly rejects Christianity in its scriptures and which seeks to subjugate, or kill, Christians.

But yes the recent Popes have made such attempts.

[ebb tide]

While Jews varied considerably in their views of a wide range of topics, on one – abortion – they were not only reasonably cohesive in their attitude, but strikingly different from other groups. Given the emphasis in the Jewish tradition on valuing life, on equating the preservation of one life with the preservation of a world and, conversely, the destruction of one life as the destruction of the world (Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5), this result, on its face, seems as anomalous as it is clear.

First, let’s look at the PRRI data. Essentially regardless of denominational affiliation or demographics, American Jews think abortion should be legal in all (49%) or almost all (44%) cases. That is, fully 93% of all American Jews support legalized abortion in some fashion. Even political leanings, while influential, are not determinative. Among Jewish Democrats support is 95%, but 77% of Jewish Republicans also favor legalized abortion in all or most cases, far exceeding the rate of other groups studied.

The curious consensus of Jews on abortion

[faithhopecharity]

The Jews do not pray to Jesus but they do pray to the same God rabbi Jesus prayed to....

that there is a different understanding of the composition, if you will, of God, is agreed. But we (Catholics, Protestants, Jews) all still pray to the very same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The same one true God.

Doctrinal differences such as trinity and sacraments and true presence... all exist and likely will continue. But all the Biblical faith groups do still pray to the same One True God, something we will do well, I think, to at least acknowledge and appreciate.

Then, we can discuss our particularistic doctrinal understandings as brothers and sisters in faith, people that God has , in His mysterious way, invited or accepted into covenant with Him. (And we will not fall into the trap of behaving as if we were all some kind of artificial enemies.)

Just my 2 cents worth. Call it a widow’s mite of a contribution, if you will

Blessings,

[annalex]

The less of these “ceremonies” the better. What prevented them from meeting in a conference hall of some kind?

[Cicero]

I didn’t see anything about people being thrown out of the Cathedral for praying the rosary.

And I think there is a big difference between glorifying pro-abortion politicians—which I agree is wrong—and holding a joint prayer meeting with friendly people of different faiths.

I would, incidentally, draw the line at inviting Muslims to such a session, because I don’t think Islam is compatible with Christianity. But there is plenty in common among faithful Catholics, Protestants, and Jews. And what I used to say when I got together with Evangelicals is that we can agree to disagree on a number of points—but there is much that we hold in common. That makes it possible to work together, provided that you don’t push it too hard. I didn’t see any indication that that kind of false “ecumenism” was involved in this case.

[ebb tide]

But the idea that the RC Church should shut itself up and not share anything with anybody else on planet earth is ludicrous and does not hold up too well when we examine the real history.

Don't you see? What "history" are you referring to? The Catholic Church has already shut itself up since VCII. The Church no longer proclaims, Christ, the Sovereign King, to all nations; nor does it preach, "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus".

[Pyro7480]

The less of these “ceremonies” the better. What prevented them from meeting in a conference hall of some kind?

EXACTLY!!!

[annalex]

I need some kind of mnemonic to remember your “7480”. A few times I wanted to ping you and could not remember the numbers.

[faithhopecharity]

before we can agree on “no salvation outside the church” we would need to discuss what constitutes the church?

is the church the hierarchy (as could be derived from how the RC tradition views “on this rock I found my church...,” albeit we have to acknowledge this as a point of debate)

or,
is the church all the faithful? just alive on earth today or those in heaven or purgatory too? and what of the (Jewish) faithful? Saint Gregory said: “”Sancti ante legem, sancti sub lege, sancti sub gratiâ, omnes hi . . . in membris Ecclesiæ sunt constituti” that is, the church includes those saints or believers before the law was given, those saints or believers under the law, and those saints or believers under grace...

That discourse could continue quite awhile.
The point I am struggling to make is,
that
CHURCH is often seen as something beyond, far broader than, the hierarchy or its authority alone.

Now then, you could argue that view as being more akin to Protestantism and Judaism, in that it puts the focus on the individuals (parishioners, believers, members, whatnot), rather than on any priesthood or hierarchy alone.

However we may view it, though, it is also a viewpoint attested within the RC faith tradition (along with, yes, the viewpoint emphasizing the clerical authority structure).

Neither viewpoint is foreign to Catholicism. I believe both are worthy of consideration, and perhaps also clarification as may be helpful, when we use the term, ‘CHURCH’?.

All my best,
fhc

[ebb tide]

And I think there is a big difference between glorifying pro-abortion politicians—which I agree is wrong—and holding a joint prayer meeting with friendly people of different faiths.

So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it. Mortalium-Animos, Pope Pius XI

[lightman]

Unfortunately “unionism” has sometimes been interpreted to include others who subscribe to the Unaltered Augsburg Confession but who lack official recognition by St. Louis.

[mlizzy]

I probably have no religious objection to this sort of ceremony at all, but it ought to be held in a public park or a VFW hall.

The less of these “ceremonies” the better. What prevented them from meeting in a conference hall of some kind?

Yes, I agree completely!

[annalex]

As well as, of considerably long-standing provenance:

All who enter the church of God and hear the Holy Scriptures, but do not communicate with the people in prayers, or who turn away, by reason of some disorder, from the holy partaking of the Eucharist, are to be cast out of the Church, until, after they shall have made confession, and having brought forth the fruits of penance, and made earnest entreaty, they shall have obtained forgiveness; and it is unlawful to communicate with excommunicated persons, or to assemble in private houses and pray with those who do not pray in the Church; or to receive in one Church those who do not assemble with another Church. And, if any one of the bishops, presbyters, or deacons, or any one in the Canon shall be found communicating with excommunicated persons, let him also be excommunicated, as one who brings confusion on the order of the Church.

Synod of Antioch in Encaeniis (A.D. 341)

[Religion Moderator]

The caucus label is being removed because the article mentions Jews and Protestants.

[ebb tide]

Thanks!