The Relative Importance of Theological Doctrines

The Good Book Blog ^ | Nov. 14, 2013 | John McKinley

[metmom]

The Holy Tradition of one to one — face to face — passing on the Scripture.

What *Holy Tradition* was passed down one person to another, face to face?

How do we know it was taught by the apostles?

How do we know that it was handed down faithfully without corruption?

What are your sources to verify this teaching and belief and to verify the integrity of the traditions that were handed down supposedly from the apostles? That what is taught today is the same as what was taught by the apostles?

[CynicalBear]

That was well put. To think that God would allow the transmission of His will and words to the word of mouth transmission of fallible men is unthinkable.

[CynicalBear]

>> Men chose and compiled the Holy Bible from those books they then had and made a Bible.<<

Peter already considered Paul’s writings to be scripture along with the Old Testament which had been long established by that time.

2 Peter 3:15b. As also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given him, [16] as in all his letters, speaking concerning these matters, in which some things are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also THE OTHER SCRIPTURES. [17] You then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being let away with the delusion of the lawless.

The Apocrypha had already been excluded by the time of the apostles.

[Gamecock]

The Mormons have somebody and the Catholics have somebody. You may not agree with those somebodies but at least they have somebody willing to say yea or nay!

And just last week we remembered someone else who was willing to say yea or nay.

[ravenwolf]

NOT thoroughly

---

Ok. i will bite, what is the difference between thoroughly and thoroughly?

[ravenwolf]

You are right, nobody can agree on much of what we do have so it would be a waste of time to have any more.

[count-your-change]

“Who else is proclaiming the Gospel like the Catholics and Mormons.”

Below is from the official website jw.org:

Fast Facts—Worldwide

239—Lands where Jehovah’s Witnesses preach

595—Languages in which we publish Bibles and Bible-based literature

111,719—Congregations

7,538,994—Ministers who teach the Bible

19,000,000—People who attend our meetings or conventions

179,000,000—Bibles published by Jehovah’s Witnesses in 116 languages

20,000,000,000—Pieces of Bible-based literature published by Jehovah’s Witnesses over the past ten years

[JAKraig]

239—Lands where Jehovah’s Witnesses preach 595—Languages in which we publish Bibles and Bible-based literature 111,719—Congregations 7,538,994—Ministers who teach the Bible 19,000,000—People who attend our meetings or conventions 179,000,000—Bibles published by Jehovah’s Witnesses in 116 languages

_________________________________________________________________ If the Catholics were to list every land that they preached in it would be every country in the world. If the Catholics were to list every language that they have translated Scripture into it be more than anybody in any other religion. If the Catholics were to list all of their congregations it's liable to be over 1 million.

You say that you have 7 1/2 million ministers who teach the Bible but you only have 111,000 congregations.

It is pretty amazing that out of 7 1/2 million members of the church you are able to get 12 million to attend your convention and 19 million to attend your memorial services. It is also very impressive that you can get so many members of your church to go door-to-door to leave tracks for people to read.

But again to further explain the problem in hand the Jehovah's Witnesses have their own translation of the holy Bible which does not conform to anyone else’s.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a person on earth who can make yes or no decisions instead they have a council of elders that meets and decides questions of doctrine.

For you to say that you have 7 1/2 million ministers who teach the Bible would compare to Catholics having 800 million ministers who preach or teach the Bible. In my humble opinion which is only that and belongs only to me; passing out watchtowers door-to-door a few hours each month is not the same thing as sending missionaries into a foreign country. Missionaries who do nothing except preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I am not speaking ill of Jehovah's Witnesses but, comparing your 7 1/2 million ministers who teach the Bible when you only have 7 1/2 million members of your entire church to me is disingenuous. When you're 7 1/2 million ministers of the Bible start working full-time at being ministers of the Bible, of taking care of fledgling congregations, of teaching the gospel to people who have never heard it before, then perhaps we will have something to talk about. While you have 7 1/2 million missionaries preaching your gospel, the Mormons have only 80,000. Those 80,000 are however full-time they leave their homes and families for two years and do nothing except work for The Lord. they are not even allowed to work outside to earn income to eat with, they have to earn their income before going on their missions. While Catholic priests do have a stipend or salary it is nothing to write home about, and it is for their entire life, not just a few hours a month. Their salaries allow them to have a few personal effects and not much more. I do not recall ever having said ill of any church certainly not the Jehovah's Witnesses. But bragging about 7 1/2 million ministers in this particular context is at least disingenuous.

[JAKraig]

They are mere mortals like the rest of us. Complete failure there.

__________________________________________________________________

Of course they are mere mortals, just like Peter was a mere morsel, just like James was a mere mortal, just like John was a mere mortal. All the apostles, all the early fathers, and all those who wrote the Holy Scriptures were simply mere mortals.

Why is it that people are willing to give more importance to dead prophets who were mortals and not listen to people living in our own day and time when they say they speak for God.

I didn't know the Hidden Mahdi had revealed himself.I didn't realize the 12th Imam had revealed himself.

Whoever it is that comes from God to rule over me I hope I have the wisdom to accept.

[Elsie]

Christians will commonly argue with each other about “secondary” issues of doctrine, while assuring themselves and the rest of us that it’s okay since they agree on the “primary” issues.

---

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

 

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

 

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

 

I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"

He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"

 

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

-- Emo Phillips

[daniel1212]

If the same group that compiled the Holy Bible that Protestants use compiled the Apocrypha why is it now not accepted? What committee is it now that is better inspired than the original committee?

Ask the early church, since it began in dissent from those unto whom "were committed the oracles of God;" "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (Romans 9:4-5)

And contrary to your premise, Christianity did not begin under the premise of a perpetual infallible magisterium, but by Christ and the church establishing truth claims upon Scripture substantiation in word and in power. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

In reality, the Bible is not the work of a committee of men, but wholly divinely writings were commonly established as being so (like as men of God were) due to their unique and enduring Heavenly qualities and attestation.

And as written, it became the transcendent standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims, as is is abundantly evidenced. .

. NT writings themselves became established as being Scripture in the light of their conformity and complementarity in word and in power to what was prior established.

The problem with the BOM and other like contenders is the same problem J. Smith has with the Lord Jesus, that being the the BOM and other Mormonic literature is contrary to Scripture, as Smith is to Christ. The only way the LDS can deal with this is to assert only they can authoritatively interpret Scripture, history and their "tradition correctly.

Which is the same recourse of Rome, but their claims are unwarranted and self-proclaimed.

[daniel1212]

If there is someone on earth who claims he has Peter's keys then to him I will be interested in listening. Just because we choose to ignore something does not make it go away.

That is simple: they keys are obviously the gospel, as it is by faith in the gospel of Scripture that believers have been delivered from the power of darkness, and translated into the kingdom of his dear Son. (Colossians 1:13)

It is Rome that befits Christ's words: Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. (Luke 11:52)

For her gospel of salvation usually begins with being formally justified by one's interior holiness via sprinkling in recognition of proxy faith, and usually ends with becoming good enough to enter glory via purgatory. This is not the gospel Paul preached, and thus those that preach are accursed. (Gal. 1:6-9)

[CynicalBear]

Well put!!

[daniel1212]

Comprehensive doctrinal unity has ever been a goal not manifestly realized, unless on holds the early church was aware of and unified in all extensive breadth and debt of theology. But they were of one heart and one soul, and we, or a remnant, can

stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; (Philippians 1:27)

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. (Philippians 2:1-3)

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God. (Romans 15:5-7)

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. (Jude 24-25)

[count-your-change]

Not bragging at all but a factual response to a question YOU posed to me.

And most obviously not “disingenuous” either!

[daniel1212]

Rather succinct by God’s grace, but not sweet.

[Salvation]

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Docility (on Catholic dogma and infallibility)
Ineffabilis Deus: 8 December 1854 (Dogma of the Immaculate Conception)

 

[Iscool]

25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

And not a single one of them adds anything to our required knowledge of salvation...So, they are not relevant to the church...

[Iscool]

Think about it there is no authority on earth in Christianity except for the Bishop of Rome.

Who told you that??? God, or your pope???

[Iscool]

The Roman Church has spent a lot of gold and and blood proclaiming The Gospel.

Unfortunately it was other people's gold and other people's blood...Plus, it's a false gospel they are spreading world wide...