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POPEíS CRACKDOWN ON ORDER ALARMS TRADITIONALISTS
ABC News ^ | December 14, 2013 | NICOLE WINFIELD

Posted on 12/14/2013 8:40:07 PM PST by ebb tide

Pope Francis may have been named Time magazine's Person of the Year, but he has come under scathing criticism from a growing number of traditionalist Catholics for cracking down on a religious order that celebrates the old Latin Mass. The case has become a flashpoint in the ideological tug-of-war going on in the Catholic Church over Francis' revolutionary agenda, which has thrilled progressives and alarmed some conservatives. The matter concerns the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, a small but growing order of several hundred priests, seminarians and nuns that was founded in Italy in 1990 as an offshoot of the larger Franciscan order of the pope's namesake, St. Francis of Assisi.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Worship
KEYWORDS: francis; hypocrite
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1 posted on 12/14/2013 8:40:07 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: piusv; marshmallow; NKP_Vet; RitaOK

Ping


2 posted on 12/14/2013 8:45:23 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

“He closed the friars’ seminary and sent its students to other religious universities in Rome. He suspended the activities of the friars’ lay movement. He suspended ordinations of new priests for a year and required future priests to formally accept the teachings of the Second Vatican Council and its new liturgy or be kicked out. And he decreed that current priests must commit themselves in writing to following the existing mission of the order.”

support abortion, homosexuality, goddesses, etc and its seems like we need to be more welcoming and we have better things to do than worry about minor issues such as these.

support traditional mass and you are some type of heretic


3 posted on 12/14/2013 8:46:24 PM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: ebb tide

Not even going to go to the abc link. abc cannot be trusted with reporting a plane crash, much less what the Pope says and/or what going on within the Church ranks.

I strongly support the Latin mass, for the record, and see only good coming from it.


4 posted on 12/14/2013 8:47:24 PM PST by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: ebb tide
Okay, let me be the first to say it on this thread:

Lighten up, Francis.

5 posted on 12/14/2013 8:47:45 PM PST by fhayek
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To: MichaelCorleone

Well ... Perhaps this link will do better ... :-) ...

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=26120&min=5


6 posted on 12/14/2013 8:53:45 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: MichaelCorleone
I strongly support the Latin mass, for the record, and see only good coming from it.

Too bad, Pope Francis doesn't share you're sentiments. If you won't view the link; do a search for "Franciscans of the Immaculate".

7 posted on 12/14/2013 8:54:15 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

OK, I’m really not liking this new pope.


8 posted on 12/14/2013 8:58:38 PM PST by jocon307
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To: MichaelCorleone

full support for the Latin Mass

full skepticism for Vatican II


9 posted on 12/14/2013 9:03:35 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: ebb tide

I went to a traditionalist mass for a while, old Latin rite. Mass was really nice. However, the priest who is of this order did not have anything nice to say about the Church and he especially disliked JPII. I never did go back. Catholic-bashing from what looks to be a bonafide Catholic priest ain’t worth it.


10 posted on 12/14/2013 9:06:48 PM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: ebb tide

Link to sign the petition to remove Fr. Volpi:

http://www.corrispondenzaromana.it/in-support-of-the-franciscans-of-the-immaculate-and-of-the-traditional-mass/


11 posted on 12/14/2013 9:13:30 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: jocon307; All

Well, he’s infallible. So, hush.


12 posted on 12/14/2013 9:15:27 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: ebb tide

I do not like this Pope one little bit


13 posted on 12/14/2013 9:15:35 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: ebb tide

Just don’t mess with the beer making monks please, okay?


14 posted on 12/14/2013 9:15:47 PM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: All

did somebody get to this pope?


15 posted on 12/14/2013 9:15:47 PM PST by willywill
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To: willywill

The NSA, duh!


16 posted on 12/14/2013 9:24:29 PM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: MichaelCorleone

You’re absolutely right. First thing an experienced Freeper should notice is that it’s from ABC News and then read only to see if there are any new twists in their propaganda.


17 posted on 12/14/2013 9:28:19 PM PST by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: yldstrk

Why are you believing stuff that comes from the lamestream ABC?


18 posted on 12/14/2013 9:28:21 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

There must be something to this.


19 posted on 12/14/2013 9:32:20 PM PST by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: ebb tide
Pope Francis is a Jesuit - actually the first Jesuit pope. Jesuits are known for being rather renegade free thinkers and liberal in their approach and interpretation of the Church's teachings. A mass offered by a Jesuit-run parish will often look much less traditional than a typical Catholic mass.

I'm not surprised by anything this pope has done - he seems true his roots and his order. When he was chosen, I was more stunned that he was a Jesuit than that he was from South America. I knew we were in for a ride, for better or worse, though he's a likable man who connects with the people and for that I am grateful. He's definitely shaking things up like Pope John XXIII did during his too short reign.

21 posted on 12/14/2013 9:35:05 PM PST by Shugee
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To: ebb tide

As long as the Mass is also translated to the local language or everyone in the church speaks Latin.
NIV
1 Corinthians 14:19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

New Living Translation
But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

International Standard Version
But in church I would rather speak five words with my mind to instruct others than 10,000 words in a foreign language.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also, than 10,000 words in languages.

GOD’S WORD® Translation
Yet, in order to teach others in church, I would rather say five words that can be understood than ten thousand words in another language.

World English Bible
However in the assembly I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in another language


22 posted on 12/14/2013 10:03:43 PM PST by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: laplata

I doubt it. The article is from lamestream media ABC.


23 posted on 12/14/2013 10:06:10 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ebb tide
As a Southern Baptist, I think services should be in the common tongue of the people the services are for. How are you going to win people for Christ if the services are in Latin and the unsaved don't speak latin?

When Paul preached in Acts 2:8 everyone understood him in their own tongue. That was accomplished by the Holy Spirit, but the point was that people needed to understand what was being said. The Holy Spirit accomplished this.

The following verses on the practice of speaking in tongues is instructive. Speaking in a tongue that men do not understand is of no benefit to the men being talked to unless someone interprets. That's true whether the tongue is latin or some kind of angelic tongue or any other "unknown" tongue.

1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1Cr 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

24 posted on 12/14/2013 10:08:40 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Salvation

You’re right.

I hope the Media gets what they deserve for what they’ve done.


25 posted on 12/14/2013 10:11:11 PM PST by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: ebb tide

Old news. The Franciscans wanted the Old Mass performed and nothing else. That’s why the Church cracked down on them. It was a disciplinary measure.

The Old Mass is still being performed all over the world, especially at the Vatican.

http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2013/06/30/how-to-offer-the-traditional-tridentine-mass-in-vatican/


26 posted on 12/14/2013 10:11:26 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("God never tires of forgiving us, we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy" - Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

The Pope was kidnapped. An imposter reigns. It’s as if Soros managed it. Popes don’t resign. He was given an offer he couldn’t refuse. “It would really be too bad if something really bad happened, you know, like Pope John Paul I. Capiche?”


27 posted on 12/14/2013 10:33:51 PM PST by namvolunteer (Obama says the US is subservient to the UN and the Constitution does not apply. That is treason.)
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To: jocon307; ebb tide
from what I understand, this article is a sham:

This group is not part of the Franciscan Order, they are an Institute. Since they are an institute, which requested to be a Papal Institute instead of its status as a Diocesan Institute, the yagreed to be under the complete authority of the Pontiff should a "question" arise such as this one

Since they are an institute and take a vow of obedience, the people waiting to be ordained must agree to abide by the Church rules

28 posted on 12/14/2013 10:37:40 PM PST by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: rwfromkansas
Common misconception. In extremely limited cases, under extremely limited circumstances, The Holy Spirit will ensure that certain teachings regarding faith and morals are unerring.

Other than that, the pope is as fallible as the next guy, as Francis so eloquently displays on a near daily basis.

29 posted on 12/14/2013 10:38:06 PM PST by Wyrd biū ful arśd (Gone Galt, 11/07/12----No king but Christ! Don't tread on me!)
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To: laplata; Salvation; yldstrk
Well,there is "something" -- read my post above. But the mainstream media, as we expect, distorts anything to foment discord among Christians.

If abc reports something about the Pope, I either dont' read it, or read it with a bucket of salt...

30 posted on 12/14/2013 10:41:09 PM PST by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

Thanks, Cronos.


31 posted on 12/14/2013 10:43:19 PM PST by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: DannyTN

well, it’s not as simple as just the language. The “Latin mass” besides being in Latin :) also had other aspects, such as the priest spent much of the mass turned away from the people. The basic content is the same of course.


32 posted on 12/14/2013 10:43:38 PM PST by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: ebb tide

All I will say as a Protestant is that ABC only has evil intentions is all this just the same as TIM does.
They want this Pope to fit their adgenda.To be their Saviour to
proclaim their salvation by reaffirming there perverted hearts.
Jesus had very simular difficultys except he knew what to say.
I guess It helps to actually be God.
I pray for the Pope.


33 posted on 12/15/2013 12:08:48 AM PST by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
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To: ebb tide

Anything the media says about Francis is wrong!!!!

Move on.


34 posted on 12/15/2013 1:01:58 AM PST by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: ebb tide

He would do much better getting the Jesuits under control


35 posted on 12/15/2013 3:03:55 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Slyfox

AMEN.

This BASHING of each other, as Christians and as Catholics is just PLAIN WRONG.

Are there not different rites in the RCC? I consider TLM to be a rite in the RCC.


36 posted on 12/15/2013 3:13:02 AM PST by Biggirl (¬ďGo, do not be afraid, and serve¬Ē-Pope Francis)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

Thankfully that was DONE under Blessed John Paul II. The Jesuits have since been cleaned up.


37 posted on 12/15/2013 3:14:09 AM PST by Biggirl (¬ďGo, do not be afraid, and serve¬Ē-Pope Francis)
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To: right way right

Thank-you and God Bless.


38 posted on 12/15/2013 3:14:48 AM PST by Biggirl (¬ďGo, do not be afraid, and serve¬Ē-Pope Francis)
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To: MichaelCorleone
I strongly support the Latin mass, for the record, and see only good coming from it.
39 posted on 12/15/2013 5:18:15 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: faucetman

Hand missals contain the Mass in the local language. The benefit of having the Mass in Latin is that you would be able to travel anywhere in the world and still understand the Mass.


40 posted on 12/15/2013 5:27:44 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: rwfromkansas

This is not an infallible teaching and people have every right to disagree.


41 posted on 12/15/2013 5:28:24 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: DannyTN
As a Southern Baptist, I think services should be in the common tongue of the people the services are for. How are you going to win people for Christ if the services are in Latin and the unsaved don't speak latin?

Our prayer books are printed with Latin on one side and English on the other, it is very simple to pray the Latin Mass. After a while one learns the Latin as well. The Catholic Church is Universal so one liturgical language makes sense.

42 posted on 12/15/2013 7:45:56 AM PST by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: Cronos

The priest faces the altar and tabernacle when he is addressing God and not us.


43 posted on 12/15/2013 7:48:35 AM PST by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: pbear8

-— so one liturgical language makes sense. -—

It also reverses the punishment for building the Tower of Babel, which is appropriate for Christ’s Church.


44 posted on 12/15/2013 7:54:14 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Indeed it does.


45 posted on 12/15/2013 8:27:07 AM PST by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It

Not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not. However, I tend to believe that for most Catholics on this forum it wouldn’t matter what media it was. If it states anything against Francis it is totally the media’s fault.


46 posted on 12/15/2013 9:09:04 AM PST by piusv
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To: willywill

It’s not someone, it’s something: Modernism via Vatican II.


47 posted on 12/15/2013 9:10:38 AM PST by piusv
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To: DannyTN

That was what Pentecost was all about, bringing people to Jesus in their own language.


48 posted on 12/15/2013 9:44:30 AM PST by Biggirl (¬ďGo, do not be afraid, and serve¬Ē-Pope Francis)
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To: faucetman

AMEN.


49 posted on 12/15/2013 9:46:53 AM PST by Biggirl (¬ďGo, do not be afraid, and serve¬Ē-Pope Francis)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Please see post number 48. Thank-you.


50 posted on 12/15/2013 9:49:02 AM PST by Biggirl (¬ďGo, do not be afraid, and serve¬Ē-Pope Francis)
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