Posted on 12/20/2013 2:45:07 PM PST by DouglasKC
Joseph and Mary were probably not much poorer than anyone else in those days, because almost everyone was.
Good point. I started reading a book by Anne Rice (yes, that Anne Rice) that is a fictionalized story of the childhood of Jesus. It painted a pretty good picture of life back then. It didn't show them as dirt poor but because Joseph was a carpenter he had good skills to provide for his family.
I could add to the error in the article. The whole section “A culture of hospitality and honoring kinship” is really based on conjecture and extrapolation. Then in the next section he uses Luke 2:4-6 to somehow indicate they had been there “for days”. Again conjecture with no solid evidence. Not that it matters but the entire article is evidence for a slippery slide into error. While I do agree that tradition can slip in non biblical truth but this article doesn’t add anything.
And scripture. The article cited scripture to show that followers of the Lord were supposed to be loving toward strangers. And yes, there is some speculation but it's based on realistic ideas.
Then in the next section he uses Luke 2:4-6 to somehow indicate they had been there “for days”.
The point is to show that the traditional idea that they were traveling and then...ooops...sleep in a barn and have the baby is kind of a gross simplification. As far as a slippery slope I don't see it that way. As I said it takes it out the realm of fairy tale, which may stop many from becoming believers, and puts it into a realistic scenario.
I see it as strengthening faith.
Yeah -- that's when all the Asians come to our cities for a week of jostling and crowding,(and groping) just like back home in Tokyo, because all the Americans are going over the river and through the woods.
I wonder if that MIGHT be symbolic of “gifts under the manger”?)
I used to listen to Herbert and Ted Armstrong quite a bit, i can,t remember much about it now but at the time i thought they made a little sense .
I can relate to the drawer, My folks used a big box or a trunk full of straw, the older kids made their own mattress,s out of straw.
A manger could have been just a box which they could have moved or it could have been built in, that would kind of depend on what kind and how many animals they were feeding.
At any rate i agree that Joseph would have made arrangements, i doubt if they were living with the cows and sheep.
It makes much more sense that they stayed in someone’s home in the “animal” part and not outside in a barn as is often suggested.
Had to have a look. :)
I don't have much use for either. The organizations they headed were very autocratic and fostered authoritarianism. That being said they did a lot to publicize little know biblical doctrine and truth.
We may never know for certain.
You are right we may never know, and just to be honest i can name the things i do know about all of this pretty quick but i don,t think there is enough time to name what i don,t know.
I don’t have much use for either. The organizations they headed were very autocratic and fostered authoritarianism. That being said they did a lot to publicize little know biblical doctrine and truth
There is not better - nor appropriate - place for the “Lamb of God” to be born than in a lamb’s manger.
Hi mom. I have not seen you in a month of Sundays. I retired from my California state job. I am in the Philippines as we speak, getting ready to go to the beach, to escape the heat. While you are living in snow, I am sweltering in this hot, tropical climate.
If Joseph was a “carpenter,” then he was a a craftsman, which put him among the middling sort. The tradition that has Mary coming from a priestly family living near Jerusalem might mean that her family as well as Joseph had recently migrated to Nazareth, following other Jews who had come north earlier. Fact is that we know so little for sure.
No Room At the Inn
Last year, exactly a year ago, I gave birth to our son in the emergency waiting room at our local hospital. After begging over and over again to be helped I repeatedly heard, “Sit down, there is no room for you.” Pregnant, scared and in pain, I did what I was told. I could never have envisioned what awaited us. It wouldn’t be until the next day, when I was home, that I would relate my experiences to that of our Blessed Mother as Joseph tried to find a room for her in Bethlehem.
When I think of the Christmas story and how Mary and Joseph were turned away because there was no room at the inn I can’t help but think now of our own experiences. Just days before Christmas our son would be born in a place that I could never have thought we would be delivering a child. I’m sure as Mary and Joseph settled down in the stable and gave birth to Jesus, they also could not comprehend why they were turned away and why their son had to be born amongst the animals in the stable. Still, they rejoiced the birth of their son.
When I look past our own story I think about why there was no room for Christ to be born in the inn. I often wonder if this was also to foreshadow how some would then go on to treat Jesus, both then and now… repeatedly turning him away because they have “no room” for him.
Why would someone turn away Jesus? Why can’t we make room for him? Sometimes there are reasons that make us wonder if God is even there with us. It would have been so easy to turn away from God during our heartache. It would have been easy to say, “There is no room here for you.” The harder choice was to continue to provide a place for Christ in our lives. Other times people are too busy. Still other times some may not want Christ in their lives. It’s easy to hang up that “no room” sign and forget about him altogether.
During Advent we are called to dive deeper into our faith, to make room for Jesus, to anticipate his coming. Our website has given us many ideas and activities we can do to accomplish those things. But what about those people who still insist there is no room in their hearts for Christ? What do we do about them? One of the best things we can do is to pray for them. Pray that they will open their hearts and seek Jesus. Pray that those fears, those doubts, those insecurities will be overcome. We need to reach out to them through our actions and our words. We can show them that we are there for them and that we carry Christ’s love for them as well. Hopefully, through the love that shines through us they will find the love of Christ as well.
During this Advent season, but also throughout the entire year, I challenge you to remove that “No Room” sign and allow Christ into your heart. Trust him in both the good times and the bad. Don’t shut him out and don’t turn him away. If you know someone who has a sign permanently hung by their door show them Jesus’ love and kindness. Show them through your words and actions just how wonderful it is to host the King of Kings within your heart. Perhaps they will remove that sign that says, “No Room” and they will welcome him as well.
unless either Mary or Joseph narrated the story of what happened to the evangalists, how would they have known anything about the birth of Christ??????
That, of course, is the lesson of the Christmas story. My wife and I visited Bethlehem in January, and visited the birthplace of Jesus, or what is traditionally thought to be so. A small cave under the main altar. A star marks the birth place, which is a niche is the wall. It occured to me that Mary, like the people of her time, was a very small person. Not like the beefy, well-fed people such as those of us who crowded into that small area. If that is the place, as Helena decided it was, then it was a place where a family lived. Roughly the size of the houses of most of the people of the world even today. We live better than the nobles of old, but like them so often indifferent to the plight of “lesser folk.”When I got back to the hotel, I thought to myself, how like a palace it was. How distant from him, in many ways.
Another take on this whole story — a level deeper — is do we make room for Mary and Joseph and Jesus in our own inn — our heart?
That and terms like it are laced thru out all the narrative...
If that which you claim is accurate, there is nothing that stands out about the birth of Jesus...It wasn't remarkable at all...It's not even worth mentioning in the scriptures...
One of the signs that the shepherds were given to find Jesus, if they hadn't noticed the neon sign was that he was lying in a manger...So we know regardless of your story that a newborn baby lying in a manger was very remarkable...
And God found it necessary for us to know that the guestroom of the relative of Joseph was full so they put Mary in the main bedroom??? C'mon...you can do better than that...
I don't buy your story...Laying in a manger and being wrapped in swaddling clothes with eye witnesses were the signs given to the World that Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT prophecies...
If Jesus was born in a house full of people, there would have been no need for outside witnesses...In fact, who would believe such a common occurrance???
'Jesus was born in a crowded house in the suburbs of Bethlehem...Therefore, believe'...Ya, right...
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